Lesbian mothers should be on birth certificates

I’m thinking of doing it via the clinics themselves.

How exactly? Pregnancy test every returning woman of childbearing age at the airport? And then grill her to make sure it wasn’t plain old holiday sex?? 😂

The loophole for foreign IVF should be closed so that there is a record of it on the mother’s medical documentation.

I’ve had babies in both ways, there is no way for the hospital to know, unless you tell them.

Which I did!

But what do you think happens, the fertility clinic puts out an announcement to all the hospitals “if Jane smith gives birth, she used egg donation, don’t let her tell you otherwise” 😂

even if you stay in the same town the hospital wouldn’t know, even less if you account for all the couples that go to Spain, Cyprus and Eastern Europe for IVF.

I dont agree with putting father unknown either, unless there is a real danger to the mother or baby.

You need a man’s consent and identity docs to register him as the father, otherwise mothers could potentially name anyone as father on the birth certificate. For example a celebrity or a first crush.

If a father is unwilling or unable to attend and provide his identity documents, then the father has to be listed as ‘unknown’.

You can’t put barriers in the way of registering a child’s birth, like chasing up the father in a foreign country and forcing him to take a paternity test - that could take months, cost loads of money and he could still refuse.

The minimum should be the mother who gave birth (and the egg donor if used), so that you don’t have loads of unregistered children without birth certificates.

But in short form they are identical to a birth certificate. This is in the best interest of the child.

A child shouldn’t have to explain their adoption every time a birth certificate is required if they don’t want to. I’m not saying this so that adoptive parents can hide, but because one of my siblings is adopted and I know they don’t want to have that discussion with random people all the time when proving identity.

I actually agree with you that gamete donation (and adoption) should be regulated, that children should have access to their own information, and should be told if they are donor conceived. Again, lesbian couples already do this, by and large.

But it is impossible to regulate at the level of the birth certificate in an equitable and non-discriminatory way without universal DNA testing. You have yet to propose a way to do this that works in the real world.

@Inamuddle36 I was confused as I've repeatedly commended posters on posts and leaejed a lot from this thread.

I then remembered I responded to a post where someone said the feminist threads were homophobic and I said dont forget transphobic.

Bless you petal. I'm sorry I offended you so much you felt the need to jump in on something that doesnr concern you.
Il have a look for your insightful posts. Shoulsnt take me too long.

For me a birth certificate should be for the child. Amd biological data should be on there, even if it says sperm donor. And then the parents. I dont agree with putting father unknowm either, unless there is a real danger to the mother or baby.

You can’t DIY an egg donation.

So voluntary. Because a mother who used egg donation (of any sexuality) can easily not disclose this. There is no way to know this at birth without a DNA test.

BTW - adoption certificates are certificates for parental responsibility when people are not biologically related to the child. Step parents can apply for parental responsibility via this process.

I am proposing that egg donors would be on the medical form which the mother takes to the registrar to register the birth.

Thats absolute bollocks, but you do you.

It might be succinct, but it’s an absolutely useless contribution to the discussion because it doesn’t address the reality that children often have parents who are not biologically related to them, and currently, the birth certificate is the only record of parental responsibility.

@WildUnchartedWaters I assume you deem only your own “contributions” to be “excellent” as you have devoted extraordinary time to criticise just about everyone else’s views and/or declare anyone with whom you disagree to be “transphobic”.
@jolaylasofia has made a neat and succinct summary of the opinion of most people on this thread.

How do you propose that egg donation is documented? Without testing It would be complete voluntary, and in reality most people would not voluntarily put the egg donor on the birth certificate.

You don’t make any sense. Mothers using egg donors would have to document them, and this would apply to heterosexual women much more than lesbians.

Any practical application of the regulations you propose only applies to lesbians unless you ask for universal testing.

whatever you think you are proposing, it means nothing and only applies to lesbians unless you test all parents, which you repeatedly decline to advocate for.

I have spelled out clearly what you believe means in actual practice, not in your fantasy land.

You believe……. only lesbians should have to list donors on the birth certificate, and exclude their partner.

How did you get that from.

1. Egg donors should be listened on birth certificates in an additional section for donors. This would affect heterosexual couples more than lesbian couples, since lesbian couples have two women with potentially viable eggs, not just one.
2. People who are not biological partners should not be listed on birth certificates, irrespective of sexual orientation.

???????

I don’t have you confused.

It’s not sleight of hand. You believe that donor conception should be regulated (we all do, no one on this thread has advocated for deregulation) but that only lesbians should have to list donors on the birth certificate, and exclude their partner.

You believe that in theory, social fathers should not be on birth certificates, but think it’s punitive to actually take all the measures necessary to exclude them.

What this means is that in practice, you are ok with social fathers but not social mothers.

If you actually wanted donor conception regulated at the level of the birth certificate you’d advocate for universal testing.

you say here “sexual orientation should make no difference” but then turn around and advocate for birth certificates regulations that only affect lesbians. So then orientation does make a difference, and while nature might “discriminate” against same sex and infertile couples, you only discriminate against same sex.

Nature discriminates against same sex and infertile couples who want a baby.

But you have open said over and over that’s it’s not possible to regulate donor conception in straight people. Because of this you are ok with fathers who are only social fathers being listed.

I know I have posted a lot of words in this thread recently, but you must be confusing me with someone else.

I think it should be on a mother’s medical records that she has used a donor egg and that this donor should be named on the form she takes to the registrar to register the birth. I believe that this genetic parent should be added to a new donor section on the birth certificate.

I don’t know what you mean by ‘regulate donor conception in straight people’. What does that mean? [political sleight of hand saying something meaningless in a way that sounds meaningful to confuse] I think all donor conception should be regulated as much as is necessary to avoid accidental incest, excessive offspring of any individual, inherited diseases, and genetic bewildering of the child. Sexual orientation would make no difference to this.

I don’t believe anyone unrelated biologically should be named on the birth certificate instead of the biological father. I don’t think it should be punitively enforced or everyone should be forced to do paternity tests when registering the father, just because a tiny minority would opt to deceive.

You have said over and over again that’s it’s ok for heterosexual men and homosexual women to be held to different standards when they are in identical parentage situations.

While I do think that accusations of “phobia” are thrown around too lightly, this is about as clear a case of discrimination as there ever was.

No I am not and that is some flawed reasoning that led you to arrive at this conclusion.

It doesn’t automatically mean that, but it’s what you are advocating for.