Scheme to give Barbie dolls to primary school children

I think that's great. The range of dolls nowadays is just amazing. I'm a massive fan of the dolls that come with wheelchairs or prosthetic limbs and the different careers explored are fantastic.

A lot of the pushback against Barbie is because the stereotypically feminine is seen as inferior to the desirable masculine and I say that as someone who's never been into pink sparkles, my favourite toys were my Britain's farm animals. That's not feminism imo. No one complains about their daughters picking up toy cars but a princess doll is beyond the pale. Yes, the stereotypical 1980s Barbie we have in our heads could be pink and pretty (which is fine) but she could also be president (also fine). This is reflected in comments above where posters are concerned that an equal number of Ken dolls are provided - why on earth can't boys play and identify with lady dolls the way girls do all the time with the opposite sex from toys to characters in books and cartoons?

And we're always exploring the femininity associated with Barbie, maybe we should also explore the masculinity associated with Ken. Sticking with the stereotypical 1980s Barbie, Ken from the same era was submissive to Barbie, always shown in the background in a supporting role, matching her clothing and styles and reflecting her interests rather being designed to have any of his own. Perhaps it was all a lot more subversive than adults think when they over-analyse the toys, what we have is a world for little girls to explore where they are unapologetically the centre and can be whatever they want. And if there are horses and sparkles with that, why not!

Completely agree with this and am surprised to see how many see this as positive on this section of the site. Playmobil and Lego were always primarily about the worlds you built. The people in it are blank canvases. Whereas Barbie dolls, with their very specific expressions and detailed features, are much more about the character and the specific world (still very pink and pastel from what I can see; nothing wrong with that, but it’s definitely not a blank canvas) that character inhabits. That’s why the world and the characters of the new film are so immediately recognisable.

Things like Barbie - and She Ra and He Man, who I loved as a child! - don’t have a place in schools because they already come with a narrative, one directed by large corporations and flanked by huge marketing events like the current Barbie mania.

That’s without getting into the feminist issues with the doll, which may have decreased haven’t disappeared.

Her children's friends don't know how.

She doesn't say her own children can't (and presumably if they didn't do imaginitive play, she'd not have moticed the visiting friends struggling with it.)).

Give them to the local secondary school art department, ask the students to customise them, and then give them back to the primary school. Would love to see what comes back 😂

I don't particularly agree with the scheme or Barbie dolls in general btw. I also mainly buy open ended toys but as someone upthread said - I'd rather my DC play with barbie than watch screens and I don't think they would inhibit imaginative play.

@NumberTheory

Read the OP's post - she said her children were incapable of imaginative play...

Yes. My kids have both had friends round to play who don't know how to and seem incapable of doing so.

While I’m not convinced by the argument that children are less likely to use their imaginations if they’re given toys that are obviously intended to be something specific than if they have more generic items to play with, OP did not claim that her own children were incapable of of imaginative play.

You need to reread and get your premise right if you want to criticise the logic of an argument.

@ArabeIIaScott

Our nursery has baskets of pine cones, stones, sticks, on exactly this principle. I think it's largely based on Steiner ideas.

But you said upthread that your own children (who presumably only play with open ended toys, wooden spoons etc) were incapable of imaginative play so I find your logic flawed.

I wasn't allowed a Barbie in the 70s, I had a Sindy and my cousin had Pippa. My daughters had Lottie dolls. Barbie is really quite extreme in her body shape in comparison to all of those fashion dolls. I think dolls are good for children to play with (my brothers had action men) but Barbie has always been questionable and from the massive marketing campaign it looks like the movie acknowledges that (while still being a massive advertisement that gives the man all the best lines). Still going to see it of course.

All over the country there will be MN mums waiting at school gates ready to snatch the dolls out of the hands of their sobbing children.

Haha I’m with you, I hated dolls especially barbie growing up but would have loved a can of coke 😂

I have 3 girls who have and do play with dolls and Barbie which I grudgingly bought, I much prefer to watch them play with dolls than watch them sitting on their tablets all day which they would happily do if I didn’t stop them. My youngest has loads of Barbie dolls and accessories, she will spend hours playing with them and uses her imagination.

I don’t see anything wrong with this, my DDs school already have Barbie dolls anyway.

Yes, you’ve got it in one. I suppose there are as many girlhoods as there are women when it comes to the past.

That reminds me of my sons at a boys school, the Head told us the boys did cookery/sewing/ironing and it was called Bachelor Survival rather than domestic science.

The main glitter and sparkles I recall from the 70's were those of glam rock.

HadalyEve · Today 17:00

wasnt allowed to take wood/metal shop classes with the boys- was forced to take home economics which was sewing and cooking class

I went to high school at the age of 11, in 1981. The first term, boys did Home Economics and the girls did woodwork. I'd say that 80% of both cohorts were disappointed!

A lot of pressure to conform to the culture then, and to be 'respectable'? Tht must have been tough, and also a lot to carry as a child.

Yes, in the right hands (like yours), these sets could be really good for primary school teaching.

We received some in September (long before movie hype) we got Ken and barbie dolls, whole range of physical disabilities and skin colours. I was really impressed and have used them to normalise disability and discuss issues of race with small children in a very white small primary school

I was a child in the 50s and my favourite toy was my Zorro sword/mask/cloak outfit. No one batted an eyelid at a little girl in that sort of outfit. I think the 50s was less concerned about pink and sparkly than the 70s was.

Barbie may be less sexual fantasy than she used to be but most barbies are still almost anorexic with short hair while all the Kens I've seen have short hair. And when the kids google barbie they'll find porn sites.

Btw I have donated a lot to my local primary - mainly books, pens, pencils, erasers, animal shaped pencil sharpeners. Imaginative play can be drawing your ideal home and family, making up stories, creating a junk masterpiece, building a den, having animal toy battles - doesn't have to involve playing with dolls at all.

Yes I was in a traditional and religious household in a rural area. But my family was not more traditional or religious than the larger village. In fact, we are Black so we were consciously blending in as much as we could to integrate into British culture. I think though that this pressure also meant my parents were afraid for us to be a hair different or trend setting.

Yes, boys have always tended towards swords and guns - they still do. They'll even create one where none exists - out of a stick they find in the woods or wherever.

I certainly wasn't one for dolls as a child, though I did have a Tippy Tumbles. I had a red bike - no shopping basket. My parents did not impose lots of gender onto me , though I think many working class families do more readily impose gendered roles and streotypes - and still do.

I imagine upper class aristocraic girls also had more obvious gendered codes of conduct imposed upon them - and still do.

Wow! Were you brought up in avery traditional or religious household?
There were so many 1970's fashions that involved trousers for girls and lots of girls had shortv hair styles were i grew up - that was perfectly normal.

Netball was a boy sport? I can't ever recall that. My junior school must have been very progressive for its time because it even had a girls' football team - though I never took to it, and ended up instinctively catching the ball, rather than kicking it. Boys certainly didn't do netball; they did cricket; although we all played rounders.

I remember this too. Blue is my favourite colour but there was no girl bike in the colour blue and no way could my parents allow me a boy bike with a banana seat or in the BMX style. No it had to be a girl cruiser type bike (yes with the stupid white plastic basket, big tinkly bell and tassels on the handles). I had to settle for a light pinky-purple Raleigh girls bike as that was closest I could get to blue.

We also still did the maypole dances on May Day so much of my girlhood included dressing in long white dresses, hair in braids, flowers in my hair skipping round a May pole both to practice every week and on May Day itself where one of us might be the May Queen (there are set patterns you weave and we girls were all taught the dances to weave those patterns with our ribbons).

Oh and First Holy Communion dresses were very elaborate for little girls at Catholic schools. The boys would basically wear school uniform, if they didn't have a smart blazer the nuns would lend one but the girls needed a big white dress, tiara on their head, nice white gloves as obviously girls had to have clean hands and if their mother wasn't too strict the little 7 year olds loved glittery shoes with heels.