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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Scheme to give Barbie dolls to primary school children

234 replies

ArabeIIaScott · 21/07/2023 09:18

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/21/scheme-to-give-barbie-dolls-to-150000-children-is-alarming/

'Primary school scheme is ‘gender stereotyping’ and ‘stealth marketing’ by Mattel, experts say'

'Mattell's "Barbie School of Friendship" programme, in which free dolls are given for children to carry out role play exercises, has been rolled out to 700 schools across the UK, "with the potential to reach more than 150,000 pupils", according to the company.'

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20230720/Mattel-accused-of-stealth-marketing-after-giving-away-free-Barbie-dolls-to-schools.aspx

'experts have criticized the programme, raising questions about potential negative effects of Barbie dolls in terms of gender stereotyping, questioning the use of research to justify the programme, and asking whether companies should be able to freely market their products through schools."The project makes me suspicious that it may be exploitative", said Philippa Perry'

Scheme to give Barbie dolls to 150,000 children is ‘alarming’

Primary school scheme is ‘gender stereotyping’ and ‘stealth marketing’ by Mattel, experts say

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/21/scheme-to-give-barbie-dolls-to-150000-children-is-alarming

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Needmorelego · 28/07/2023 16:26

@ArabeIIaScott the Barbie of 1959 is very very different than the Barbie of today.
Products evolve over time. Many products out there were not so great in the beginning but have now completely changed to better (and vice versa).
You can’t compare 1959 Barbie to the modern ones and what they represent.

ArabeIIaScott · 28/07/2023 15:44

'"It’s not clear that Ruth Handler — a business executive on vacation from her home in California — knew what Lilli was."

She saw a doll and was inspired. That's it. Barbie is nothing to do with porn.'

Barbie was based on a sex doll. I'm not sure it really matters whether Handler was aware of that fact, although it seems unlikely that she didn't. The Lilli doll was created to satisfy male sex fantasy. The fact that someone thought this was a great thing for little girls doesn't prove that it's not a porn-based fantasy figure.

Couple of other articles:

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/barbie-controversies-greta-gerwig-mattel-ruth-handler-sex-doll-sexism-racism-1234792205/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-12323723/The-curse-Barbie-dolls-two-creators-bitter-enemies-marred-tragedy-one-fired-Mattel-financial-crimes-spend-millions-prostitutes-cocaine-shooting-himself.html

PARIS, FRANCE - MARCH 09: Barbie doll wigs are displayed during the exhibition "Barbie, life of an icon" at the Museum of Decorative Arts as part of the Paris Fashion Week Womenswear Fall/Winter 2016/2017 on March 9, 2016 in Paris, France. More than 70...

The Dark Side of Barbie: Crime, Racial Issues, and Rampant Sexism

Greta Gerwig’s Barbie movie cleverly sends up some of the Mattel doll’s many, many controversies — but not all of them

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/barbie-controversies-greta-gerwig-mattel-ruth-handler-sex-doll-sexism-racism-1234792205

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CremeEggsForBreakfast · 28/07/2023 15:26

NumberTheory · 22/07/2023 09:14

If this is about Barbie's body then I point out that nobody in the entire world is that size or shape and she is a doll who fits nicely into a child's hand. That's it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2023/05/25/barbie-trailer-creator-pornographic-origin-doll/

Literally the third sentence of that article 🙄

"It’s not clear that Ruth Handler — a business executive on vacation from her home in California — knew what Lilli was."

She saw a doll and was inspired. That's it. Barbie is nothing to do with porn.

SinnerBoy · 28/07/2023 15:11

I got rid of the last of my ten year old daughter's boxes a few months ago. It had contained our fridge freezer and transformed into a fairy castle.

mirax · 28/07/2023 14:44

NumberTheory · 22/07/2023 09:14

If this is about Barbie's body then I point out that nobody in the entire world is that size or shape and she is a doll who fits nicely into a child's hand. That's it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2023/05/25/barbie-trailer-creator-pornographic-origin-doll/

That the Barbie prototype is a german sex doll doesnt surprise me in the least.

ArabeIIaScott · 28/07/2023 14:30

I know that schools probably won't be using the free barbies in this way - but also think it's unfair to write barbies off as regressive, when the brand have clearly worked hard to change for the better.

It's good that some steps have been taken to widen the range. I remain sceptical that a multinational commercial producer of plastic toys is worthy of a presumption of altruistic motives, I'm afraid.

And I am struggling to get past the fact that 1. this doll was born out of a sex toy and 2. nobody ever seems to mention this fact when discussing Barbie's history (first I'd heard of it on this thread!).

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Needmorelego · 28/07/2023 14:00

@ArabeIIaScott yes cardboard boxes are great. I used to use them to build dolls houses and furniture for Barbie and Sindy dolls 😂

tryingtobeagoodhuman · 28/07/2023 14:00

DD loves a cardboard box and will happily spend an hour or two getting creative with one.

But her ridiculously huge collection of barbies has been incredible for teaching her about diversity, inclusion and other real world issues. For example, I noticed she wasn't playing much with the barbie in the wheelchair. Through some role play, I was able to find out this was because "you can't play with us because we're doing gymnastics today and that won't work because of your wheelchair" - my daughter learned a really valuable lesson that day about adaption and inclusion. It would be difficult to teach her the same thing with a cardboard box.

One of her barbies even has wider hips which means she struggles to fit in a lot of the clothes - so while barbie still very much subscribes to western beauty ideals, we have been able to have some conversations about that too - in an age-appropriate and engaging way.

I know that schools probably won't be using the free barbies in this way - but also think it's unfair to write barbies off as regressive, when the brand have clearly worked hard to change for the better.

Boiledbeetle · 28/07/2023 13:42

ArabeIIaScott · 28/07/2023 13:28

And fwiw yes 10 yos play with boxes, in my experience. No they won't appreciate a cardboard box for a birthday present, but they still represent infinite possibility and a world of imaginative play.

Even for adults, tbh. I mean, we all have a few Really Good boxes we just can't bring ourselves to throw out, right?

Right?!

Raises hand! Love a good cardboard box. The uses are endless.

ArabeIIaScott · 28/07/2023 13:28

And fwiw yes 10 yos play with boxes, in my experience. No they won't appreciate a cardboard box for a birthday present, but they still represent infinite possibility and a world of imaginative play.

Even for adults, tbh. I mean, we all have a few Really Good boxes we just can't bring ourselves to throw out, right?

Right?!

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ArabeIIaScott · 28/07/2023 13:24

Waitwhat23 · 23/07/2023 10:05

The sneering on this thread at the idea of open ended resources ('pine cones and wooden sticks!!') is bemusing.

In early years, open ended resources are generally what is considered good practice. For example, dressing up clothes tend now to be lengths of cloth and clothes pegs so that children can create their own outfits. Loose parts play (conkers, corks, shells, etc and yes, pine cones!) are considered more beneficial to imagination and creativity than plastic figurines of animals/knights/princesses etc. Treasure baskets are invaluable for younger children. And that's not just older childhood theorists like Steiner, Montessori, Froebel etc but more recent theorists too.

I can see issues with the traditional stereotyped body of Barbie but also see the benefit of different types of body represented by the newer range. I can see the benefit of resources being offered to Schools in dire need of resources but also feel qualms at them being offered as part of a bigger scheme by a company with a vested interest (based on research which focuses on the benefit of role playing generally rather than specially role playing with dolls such as Barbies).

Thank you, you've used all the proper words there that I couldn't remember! 😂

I completely agree with all that you say here.

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NumberTheory · 27/07/2023 17:12

user123212 · 25/07/2023 12:49

what's wrong with being a housewife?

What’s wrong with setting our girls’ aspirations to be all about service to, and reliance on, a man in a setting that provides no mechanism for future independence if the foundation (the relationship with the man) goes wrong?

Hmm….

Sugarfree23 · 25/07/2023 15:20

House-person looses independence.
Barbie has freedom, to do what Barbie does, rides horses, skis, dances, drives multiple cars. has parties in the hottub!
She ain't spending life doing dishes, and hoovering

user123212 · 25/07/2023 12:50

user123212 · 25/07/2023 12:49

what's wrong with being a housewife?

or househusband for that matter. Ken could look after the kids

user123212 · 25/07/2023 12:49

Sugarfree23 · 21/07/2023 13:21

Give Barbie a bit of credit.
Independent, multiple home owning, woman, many cars, and a cool boyfriend.

Apparently the creator of Ken said Barbie should never marry him and become a housewife dragged down by loads of housewife stuff.

Come on Barbie let's go party!

what's wrong with being a housewife?

MrsTerryPratchett · 24/07/2023 01:41

SinnerBoy · 23/07/2023 16:44

Iwasafool · Today 10:12

Oh, that's interesting! My wife has been on the phone to our nice (25) who went with a gang of friends and they all enjoyed it. She's now asked me if I'll go with her, as she wants to see it, but won't go alone.

I've said yes, partly because of a couple me and our daughter met today, feeding the waterfowl. They were mid 20s and they were saying it was rather good and the bloke told me not to be embarrassed!

DD and me went without DH. There were lots of blokes in the cinema. Some gay, some dragged there, some part of a group of friends with girls, couple of dads, couple of whatever the Barbie equivalent of Bronies is. Wear a pink shirt, laugh at the patriarchy and cry ugly tears at the idea of children growing up and how fucking shit the world can be for women.

For me, it reinforced my belief that my feminism is for all women.

It is genuinely a film I am incredibly grateful to have seen with DD. It's all very well waiting until our girls can read Dworkin and Greer but in the meantime, Barbie film conversations are actually good.

Rudderneck · 23/07/2023 16:57

As far as the advertising element, I think it's something to be aware of, but not to be ruled out entirely. I have never heard of a school saying they wouldn't take free Lego, which is just as much a corporate player in the toy world as Mattel.

Rudderneck · 23/07/2023 16:55

I think age 8 to 10 is about prime Barbie age for playing. The kids are still interested in role play, but not doing it directly in many cases, and they will play multiple roles at once with the dolls.. It drops off after that but how quickly depends on the group of kids. Some 11 and 12 year olds are much more kid like, while others launch at high speed into teen mode.

SinnerBoy · 23/07/2023 16:44

Iwasafool · Today 10:12

Oh, that's interesting! My wife has been on the phone to our nice (25) who went with a gang of friends and they all enjoyed it. She's now asked me if I'll go with her, as she wants to see it, but won't go alone.

I've said yes, partly because of a couple me and our daughter met today, feeding the waterfowl. They were mid 20s and they were saying it was rather good and the bloke told me not to be embarrassed!

Gruffaflo · 23/07/2023 11:42

Shouldn't be*

Gruffaflo · 23/07/2023 11:41

Waitwhat23 · 23/07/2023 11:29

Good post. And I agree about the research - it may be sound but it's vested.

It definitely is, I mean the findings aren't inaccurate but the whole project is skewed. Its like saying asda blueberries have more vitamins than a chocolate bar, when the reality is this is true for blueberries in general and should be the basis for people to feel compelled to specifically buy asda ones. Not exactly the same I know but same vibes.

Waitwhat23 · 23/07/2023 11:29

Gruffaflo · 23/07/2023 10:52

I've been a KS1 teacher for many moons (too many), I'd welcome some free dolls to be honest as they're more diverse now- schools already have toys like this albeit usually very dated and well loved (diplomatic way of saying on their last legs) but we can't afford to replace them. I did teach a little one in a wheelchair who brought her barbie in a wheelchair to show and tell most weeks, representation is important and lacking in toys really so kudos to Mattel for that. Especially in reception both boys and girls love playing with them and it's fascinating hearing their games and play (this isn't restricted to barbies but I think dolls that aren't just babies are good for encouraging play). Yes we have plenty of pine cones, boxes and other things too!

I'm much more dubious about the 'research' which says Mattel is more beneficial for aspects of children's development than screens- which fails to acknowledge the benefits are from toys in general and not just theirs. I'd want to know more about the "Barbie School of Friendship" accompanying lessons and schemes which seemingly schools are supposed to deliver in exchange for the dolls and the content of, but to me that's likely a bigger issue. At best it's just a way to justify giving their products to school so it doesn't seem like outright advertising, but I'm a bit dubious of the intent following the past few years.

Good post. And I agree about the research - it may be sound but it's vested.

Gruffaflo · 23/07/2023 10:52

I've been a KS1 teacher for many moons (too many), I'd welcome some free dolls to be honest as they're more diverse now- schools already have toys like this albeit usually very dated and well loved (diplomatic way of saying on their last legs) but we can't afford to replace them. I did teach a little one in a wheelchair who brought her barbie in a wheelchair to show and tell most weeks, representation is important and lacking in toys really so kudos to Mattel for that. Especially in reception both boys and girls love playing with them and it's fascinating hearing their games and play (this isn't restricted to barbies but I think dolls that aren't just babies are good for encouraging play). Yes we have plenty of pine cones, boxes and other things too!

I'm much more dubious about the 'research' which says Mattel is more beneficial for aspects of children's development than screens- which fails to acknowledge the benefits are from toys in general and not just theirs. I'd want to know more about the "Barbie School of Friendship" accompanying lessons and schemes which seemingly schools are supposed to deliver in exchange for the dolls and the content of, but to me that's likely a bigger issue. At best it's just a way to justify giving their products to school so it doesn't seem like outright advertising, but I'm a bit dubious of the intent following the past few years.

ChocolateCroissantCafe · 23/07/2023 10:42

They're a great toy. The You Can Be Anything tagine has been around for ages, there's loads of emphasis on the dolls taking on different occupations and acting out everyday life.

We used to play with the dolls but also make their surroundings by setting up whatever we had (a few pinecones for the woods, making a room out of a box, cutting felt squares for blankets or whatever) and you come up with games by interacting on character as the doll. Loads of room for imagination.

LittleBearPad · 23/07/2023 10:32

Isn’t what she was.

Grr