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Original poster

Science of trans

62 replies

ConnieLinggusThe69th · 20/07/2023 20:38

I'm not actually through this video yet nor do I know who the man is who's speaking but I'm finding it really interesting ... anyone else seen this?

I'll come back when I've finished it but the science that at least he's saying exists... is very intriguing

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Original poster
ConnieLinggusThe69th · 21/07/2023 23:25

Boomboom22 · 21/07/2023 23:22

But this isn't new the literature is there from the 60s onwards. In giddens 1990 book the transformation of intimacy there is a chapter on identity. I was teaching stuff about this 15 years ago in psych a level so all outdated by the time it's in teaching etc. So we've always known the types. Same for paedophilia, loads of research, books etc. It's like young people forget nothing is new.

Oh I didn't expect it to be new as such! It's new to me but he's been around a while clearly

Makes you wonder though, we had the knowledge before - why the fuck did we let this happen?!

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Boomboom22 · 21/07/2023 23:22

But this isn't new the literature is there from the 60s onwards. In giddens 1990 book the transformation of intimacy there is a chapter on identity. I was teaching stuff about this 15 years ago in psych a level so all outdated by the time it's in teaching etc. So we've always known the types. Same for paedophilia, loads of research, books etc. It's like young people forget nothing is new.

Original poster
ConnieLinggusThe69th · 21/07/2023 22:54

I guess he was saying there's different people all currently believing they're transgender

  • Those who can be/are happier post transition who acknowledge their identity as biologically the sex they were born as still being the case and who are aware of what they sacrifice by living as transgender
  • Those who have an unstable identity and would go on to figure out if they're really transgender or gay
  • Those who don't like change and are coping with puberty

Etc

Different species under one umbrella like the headache example and so a smaller number than currently identify as trans might actually genuinely be transgender

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Original poster
ConnieLinggusThe69th · 21/07/2023 22:41

TheBiologyStupid · 21/07/2023 22:34

While retaining their ability to enjoy sex and reproduce. Mysterious...!

Quite!

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Original poster
ConnieLinggusThe69th · 21/07/2023 22:37

@CrazyArmadilloLady it doesn't seem like rocket science does it 😅 but people like to be special and complicate things- sadly medicine in this case

And whilst medicine gets it right with lots of things - we've had several tragedies. He mentions that in the video - I'm not sure if everyone would remember but satanic panic of the 80s/90s and false memories (not discrediting everyone but we know lots were as a result of the therapist)

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TheBiologyStupid · 21/07/2023 22:34

While retaining their ability to enjoy sex and reproduce. Mysterious...!

CrazyArmadilloLady · 21/07/2023 22:32

I wonder why older trans people seem happier.

It’s such a mystery.

Because while they might have had surgery to stick a set of breasts on, they will have done absolutely nothing about removing their penis, i.e., their sexual function. And yes, I’m referring to men here (invariably straight).

Whereas young people are being encouraged to mutilate their bodies, take puberty blockers, impair their future sexual function / ability to have a normal intimate relationship, and ruin their fertility - all while having absolutely no concept of the impact of any of this because of their age. And yes, I’m referring (mainly) to girls here (often gay, often neurodiverse).

Such a surprise that older trans people are happier.

Original poster
ConnieLinggusThe69th · 21/07/2023 22:29

On a pros and cons I think supposing we find out one day that being transgender is caused by biology and unfixable (like homosexuality) I think these points still confirm to me that allowing children to transition medically will always be unhelpful and that people can live happily after transitioning when acknowledging their biological sex exists - it does feel like erasure of an identity isn't helpful to people and recognition of sex rather than denial of it is an important part of living happily

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Original poster
ConnieLinggusThe69th · 21/07/2023 22:15

Also I do think it would be a disaster to include it in as a sexuality in any community beyond the medical one

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Original poster
ConnieLinggusThe69th · 21/07/2023 22:12

Signalbox · 21/07/2023 20:15

I think he's wrong re paedophiles. Stigma is absolutely necessary. Treatment should obviously be an option for those paedophiles who recognise they have a problem but destigmatisation would be a complete disaster.

Oh I certainly don't think destigmatising child abuse or people who want to commit it should happen

I do think we have a problem with running people so far underground and often to each other for support which quickly becomes normalisation of what must never be normalised in the most dangerous people and that makes it easier for them to offend and that we should make it easier for people to approach therapists and specialists who can maybe offer them drugs to reduce sexual desire. If it's biological- that's very unfortunate for them but since they can't help it I think knowing who they are more and making sure they're engaged in therapy to prevent offending from EVER being committed by them rather than giving them help reactively in prison sounds much safer personally

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Original poster
ConnieLinggusThe69th · 21/07/2023 22:06

ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 21/07/2023 20:58

I skipped past the what makes someone gay bit.

He said that older men, in their 30s and 40s, are very happy with their 'transition'.

He then said children who grow up to be gay sometimes feel they are different in a way that they cant explain and see it as they should have been the opposite sex. But when they reach puberty, and their sex drive kicks in, they realise that they arent in the wrong body, just attracted to the same sex.

Stopping puberty in these children stops them from getting a sex drive and realising that they are gay.

Also, the argument that stopping puberty helps them pass as the opposite sex isnt as important as people think, because its established that late transitioners are happy with their transition.

This, at least, makes sense to me.

Yes he said older transgender people seemed happier, the old school ones who were happy to acknowledge their biology but present as a transwoman/man bc they'd had time to live as an adult to know what they would be sacrificing to present outwardly as the opposite sex onwards and they'd had a lot of therapy in making that decision to be sure that they would live happier - I don't think he applied to any man of that age would be happier after transition (the modern day woke man falls under my point below) but I do watch sometimes two YouTubers I quite enjoy talking about being trans and they'd strike me as the older ones bc they seem to be excommunicated or In scientology terms labelled suppressive people 😂from the letter people and they totally acknowledge they're a category of men, transwomen and seem to be quite happy and less defensive ... which always strikes me as it must be exhausting constantly correcting and educating people on pronouns and stuff

I also found the point about the behaviour of some (I assume TRAs can be particularly like EUPD (formerly borderline personality disorder) behaviours and people who have this disorder- well, part of that disorder- a symptom is an unstable identity... and you don't treat borderline personality disorder with gender affirming care and ignore the rest of it- those people don't get better after transitioning

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ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 21/07/2023 20:58

I skipped past the what makes someone gay bit.

He said that older men, in their 30s and 40s, are very happy with their 'transition'.

He then said children who grow up to be gay sometimes feel they are different in a way that they cant explain and see it as they should have been the opposite sex. But when they reach puberty, and their sex drive kicks in, they realise that they arent in the wrong body, just attracted to the same sex.

Stopping puberty in these children stops them from getting a sex drive and realising that they are gay.

Also, the argument that stopping puberty helps them pass as the opposite sex isnt as important as people think, because its established that late transitioners are happy with their transition.

This, at least, makes sense to me.

Signalbox · 21/07/2023 20:15

I think he's wrong re paedophiles. Stigma is absolutely necessary. Treatment should obviously be an option for those paedophiles who recognise they have a problem but destigmatisation would be a complete disaster.

Signalbox · 21/07/2023 19:54

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Original poster
ConnieLinggusThe69th · 21/07/2023 19:32

@Circumferences I mean it was relevant and interesting bc that's actually in the video.

I haven't expanded on what he's saying about trans yet bc I want to make sure I understand and repeat it correctly but the video is there for anyone to watch and comment on re trans before I have got to it.

It's linked when discussing how identities form...

The video I wouldn't call woke shit at all, if you watch it he hardly has what would be classed as "woke" opinions and is discussing how treatment would make any difference to people.

I personally think the current approach is very wrong and harmful and feel his opinions support that viewpoint

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Circumferences · 21/07/2023 18:55

Pontificating about whether gay people or trans people had too much or not enough testosterone in the womb (which quite frankly is nonsense) or pontificating that paedophiles are just "born that way" because reasons, and saying all these people should be treated with kindness, is the sort of rubbish I have no time for whatsoever.

Men can't be women.
Don't stick your dick into children and don't expose them to your erection . Don't download child rape images.
I don't accept men in women's spaces and actually don't care what happened to them in the womb. (Unscientific theory if anything). Or if they had a traumatic childhood. Whatever. They're still not women.
I don't care if a paedophile exists because they're traumatized as a child or had the wrong hormones in the womb.
I don't care if a man or woman is gay. Leave children and women's rights alone.

This woke crap needs to jog on. Stop excusing harm to women and children especially when you're a grown man and not affected by anything at all.

Signalbox · 21/07/2023 18:36

Thanks for sharing OP. I follow James Cantor on Twitter but I've not seen him interviewed. V interesting.

Original poster
ConnieLinggusThe69th · 21/07/2023 18:18

I'm bi myself and he didn't really cover that but I can pinpoint reasons I might feel more comfortable with women sexually. I was raised religious and didn't acknowledge it- prayed it away etc till quite late in adulthood. I recognise it has always been who I am, I used to be convinced that I was delivered from it (when religious) but all that had happened was I'd developed a crush on a male instead and crushes on women always returned sooner or later when I met a woman I could fancy 😅 but I definitely can pinpoint due to behaviour of men where I opened up and embraced that I am also attracted to women

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Original poster
ConnieLinggusThe69th · 21/07/2023 18:13

Nannyfannybanny · 21/07/2023 17:58

Many years ago, when I was working on the kids ward, I found a book on genetics, which said,gay men had not enough testosterone in the womb,and opposite for lesbians. Although, yes, over the years I have met women in abusive relationships with men,who have then decided to have relationships with women.

Yeah in this he says that gay men it's an immune response between the mother and fetus to do with the Y chromosome - so that's why if a woman has more pregnancies regardless of how many come to term, the more likely she is to have a gay son (older brother affect)

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Florissante · 21/07/2023 18:01

Wildmoors · 20/07/2023 21:41

Don’t care not interested

Then find another thread that you care about and are interested in.

Nannyfannybanny · 21/07/2023 17:58

Many years ago, when I was working on the kids ward, I found a book on genetics, which said,gay men had not enough testosterone in the womb,and opposite for lesbians. Although, yes, over the years I have met women in abusive relationships with men,who have then decided to have relationships with women.

Original poster
ConnieLinggusThe69th · 21/07/2023 17:50

So I have watched the entire video now and will make some comments going back to make sure I get it right what he actually says re trans and treatment

But I also checked out the Wikipedia and noticed he was dismissed by a judge bc they considered him not qualified on transgender issues and obviously this is the argument anyone who disagrees will highlight this in response I assume, whilst I agree with what he says myself. Is there a reason that others believe he is suitable to give a professional opinion on those matters?

He is explaining in this video how sexuality is caused and controversially after he's discussing what caused gay, lesbian and then discussing transgender where he says there are different categories much like how a headache can have many sources- we describe them all as a headache but a tension headache isn't the same as a migraine etc ... he goes on to discuss paedophilia as a sexuality and says that is biological and he seems qualified for the two either side from what I see on Wikipedia I'm a little cautious to use him as my source if I repeat him as an authority on trans development right now.

His comments on how we should treat people who are paedophiles to prevent offending is really interesting but I'm very conscious my title doesn't yet align with what I actually titled the post and intended to discuss with anyone interested

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NoNonsensePotato · 20/07/2023 23:45

Sounds interesting. Will have to watch tomorrow but I'm up for work in five hours.

Original poster
ConnieLinggusThe69th · 20/07/2023 23:23

Well not slightly misunderstood 🤦‍♀️ I have misunderstood

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Original poster
ConnieLinggusThe69th · 20/07/2023 23:21

Think ive slightly misunderstood and he hasn't actually said men its biological and women social which was my initial interpretation. Both have biology involved but I think social influences are a bigger factor in women's sexuality and not really the case in men

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