Tougher transgender guidance for schools is unlawful, Sunak told

IwantToRetire · Today 18:42

So for the 3rd of 4th time there is no such thing as social transitioning outside of medical treatment, so why is the AG even referencing it.

I am not sure what you mean here. This statement is from the Cass Review and speaks of social transition and specifically mentions it happens outside of health services (I separated some paragraphs in the quote to make italics work):

5.19 There are three types of intervention or treatment for children and young people with gender-related distress, which may be introduced individually or in combination with one another:

•Social transition - this may not be thought of as an intervention or treatment,because it is not somethingthat happens within health services.

However it is important to view it as anactive intervention because it may havesignificant effects on the child or young person in terms of their psychological functioning.

There are different views on the benefits versus the harms of early social transition.

Whatever position one takes, it is important to acknowledge that it is not a neutral act, and better information is needed about outcomes.

She also adds that doing nothing cannot be considered neutral.
5.20. It should also be recognised that 'doing nothing' cannot be considered a neutral act^.

Ofsted just investigated the Sussex school where the teacher harangued the pupils saying that intersex was a gender...and gave it a clean bill of health incl "sensitive gender issues".

They'll be one of the last bodies to change their tune on this.

So for the 3rd of 4th time there is no such thing as social transitioning outside of medical treatment

I don't know why you are so adamant about this.

Most of us think it's a bad idea and should not be happening but it is indeed a thing that IS happening. What would you call it?

We must push the government to stop schools to transitioning children. It's wrong on almost every level - safeguarding, developmentally, ethically and politically.
There are some small signs of progress. Ofsted stopped being a Stonewall Diversity champion after Stonewall were outed complaining that inspectors weren't talking enough to primary children about gender identity!
The Head's unions have all hidden their grim trans guidelines from public view - no doubt starting an embarrassed reverse ferret.
Cass has signposted education as an issue to be considered re social contagion / social transitioning.
And at last the government have found the courage to mention safeguarding, oppose parental alienation and raise concerns about the activities of the queer theory activists, thanks to the actions of those brave women parliamentarians.
We must pressurise them to follow up on this and stop schools transitioning children.

Trouble is, a public enquiry will not happen until the avalanche of detransitioners and young people suing for all the damage being done to them becomes overwhelming and that's going to take some years.
The Tories have a powerful group of mainly childless gay men in the party who don't give a damn about safeguarding children, with the rest of the party being "kind" so they're not seen as the nasty party and just following their lead. We all know about the deeply unpleasant misogynists at the heart of labour & the lib dems, all of who are content to look away when the safeguarding is raised as an issue.
The only hope is that enough tories are so horrified at what's been unleashed while they stood by, that they manage to put in place clear boundaries for schools, stop funding the queer theory activist groups and force Ofsted to check that schools are not breaching their legal duty to be politically impartial. Oh and continuing to remove the highly dodgy individuals in the DfE who are literally using children to promote their own queer theory agenda.

There is no such thing a social transitioning.

It is incredible that poster's on a FWR thread would use the deliberately weasel words of TRAs as though they were fact. Its like saying sex and gender are the same thing because Stonewall does.

The reference to "social transitioning" in an NHS papers and specifically says what was the "affirmative" action of "social transitiong" as part of places like the Tavistock should NO LONGER HAPPEN.

And even if they did, schools are NOT a medical establishment.

Why dont you read what are said and respond to that. Instead of just chanting the matra of TRAs.

So for the 3rd of 4th time there is no such thing as social transitioning outside of medical treatment, so why is the AG even referencing it.

If what was (but is no loger) an agreement as part of medical treatment that someone starts to live "as the other gender" this would not be a decision a teacher could take.

Stop being brainwashed by the TRA weasel words.

We know they are everywhere.

We know they infiltrated the EHRC.

Or if you dont like the way I have written it, read what sex matters says.

It amounts to the say but doesn't bother to get side tracked by TRA thought processes and mantras.

That’s what I don’t get.

I know dc who don’t conform and other children still call the boy a he etc because no adults have intervened to say they shouldn’t

The dc is happy. They feel accepted as they are

Why do we need social transition if stereotypes aren’t fixed?

More to pp who believes in social transition

Can those who think social transition is valid talk about what the person is doing in practise

Isn't it more about what other people are doing? Social transition happens when other people start to pretend someone is the opposite sex, usually by using "preferred pronouns" or referring to a boy as a girl. Until that point a boy in a skirt is just a boy in a skirt.

Exactly this

As much as the legal insight is useful I’m a bit wary of anyone who doesn’t recognise this

Absolutely

Yes. I would like a full public inquiry into all of it.

I think it’s ok. I’m learning what is domestic and what is international, all good info.

I think we go as far as possible with domestic law then see if it’s enough or not and if not, vote.

Well obviously this has nothing to do with the need for good quality schools guidance, and even if we got the GRA repealed tomorrow it would have no effect on that.

Talk about the GRA is a massive derail for this thread. Apologies for my part in it.

You're wrong. This is a totally adult led social contagion aided by the DfE who, in the last 10 years, openly encouraged schools to ignore their legal duty to be politically impartial. They funded all manner of queer theory activist groups, promoted them via DfE guidance and then stood back as organisations with an open agenda of making society a hostile environment for women and girls, promoted fantasies that children could be born in the wrong body with drugs and surgery being the solution. This has been sold to children of all ages.

As someone who worked in and with many schools in numerous local authorities in a pastoral context, children demanding to sex change just did not happen. The GIDs data backs this up. Children did not believe they were the wrong sex & demand to socially transition until adults with an agenda were let loose in schools.

And by fast enough I mean for our dc who need action sooner

How many of those cases have been about women's human rights and the harm done to them by gender laws?

I’d go for a vote on ECHR

Fast enough for what? What's your solution? We just live with these shit laws that harm women and girls forever?

It took decades for the TRA to get the GRA in place. If it takes decades to get rid of it again then so be it.

Multiple cases have already ended up there over the past twenty years. I'm not sure why you'd expect a sudden departure from twenty years of precedent affirmed in multiple cases.

Pencil I think you have good intentions but sadly I don’t think it’s likely or fast enough

Like I said, we continue fighting for women and girls' rights through the courts. Sooner or later a case will end up there, maybe several.

I'm unsure what you think the route to repealing the GRA is while remaining within the ECHR.

Can you enlighten me as to how you think that could be done?

Can those who think social transition is valid talk about what the person is doing in practise

Do they mean ‘presenting’ as the opposite sex? Ie looking different

What is it that makes a child unhappy. Are they sure it’s not a societal reaction to not following stereotypes and if we removed that they’d be ok

So a child turns up presenting differently, adults say fine no problem and the child is happy expressing themselves

@PlanetJanette can you say why a child would not be happier if we didn’t have gender stereotypes?

No I don't. I suggested I had changed my mind about leaving ECHR after your ludicrous suggestion that laws based on decisions from that court could never be repealed. But that's not true (and I never thought it was).

Yes they are but there is no hierarchy between different acts. If a blanket ban was brought in it would be challenged under the EA and unless the EA has exceptions for things done in relation to the Children Act or safeguarding then the case would very likely succeed.

I've looked and I can't find any such exceptions although there is one for anything done in connection with the content of the curriculum, so perhaps something could be added there.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/89

Or, just amend S. 84 so that the PC of gender reassignment does not apply to school pupils.