KJK and the neo-nazis video

That's it throw another log on the fire.
What else you got in your sack? Let's see all the balls rather than you pulling them off one at a time.

My birth certificate is not my mother or father's property nor any other adults either of them were in a relationship with.

Congratulations you're not a lesbian watching your lesbian sisters in Italy having their rights removed and seeing people Tweeting support for it in the UK. Good for you.

I'm not the one looking for things to panic about.

I imagine a loving lesbian couple who are all excited about their new bundle of joy and the life ahead not really giving two hoots about all this legal rights stuff, and just getting on with their lives and raising the baby.

You seem to imagine a lot of nonsense but I'm just a lesbian parent so what would I know 🤷‍♀️

It looks like it's always been a descretionary decision made locally by mayors in Italy and the supreme court has over ruled it. Ultimately I fall on the side of a human knowing where their paternity originated as a fundamental human right. As long as there's a legal parental right facility it's not a judgement on the relationships adults are in, it's a judgement on your human origins, notwithstanding that the insemination can be fudged for nefarious reasons the reality is that humans know it's a male and female process that leads to a birth in every single one of us, irrespective of who parents us.

Everything is not a value judgement, sometimes it's just the basic facts of human existence.

this is probably my all time favourite mumsnet post.

You might want to tell the government their website is wrong then.

Under what circumstances are these rights being removed?
I don't know that if two lesbians want to legally give the second woman parental rights that it is "a lengthy adoption process". In that link I posted it even describes the process, and it doesn't look particularly long. You print out a form, fill it in, take it to a local court for them to witness you signing it, and then pop a few copies in the post. Blammo imagined catastrophe averted yet again. I'm getting good at this super hero stuff. Maybe read the link. Someone else already did the google bit for you.

Lesbians aren't being treated as second class citizens. The process for a hetro couple where the man is not the father is exactly the same. It's in the link. Imagined catastrophe averted yet again.

The bond thing is not an argument over legal recognition which seems to be a major crisis point for you. It's just an appeal to emotion. Imagined catastrophe averted yet again.

It feels like you are looking desperately for issues to make a big deal out of when really it's no big deal at all. I imagine a loving lesbian couple who are all excited about their new bundle of joy and the life ahead not really giving two hoots about all this legal rights stuff, and just getting on with their lives and raising the baby.

Both lesbians then apply jointly to the courts for the second to get legal parental rights,

This is bullshit btw, a lesbian couple who conceive at a licensed clinic in the UK can both be on the birth certificate. There is no applying jointly to courts.

Okay a question for any parents on here. How would you feel if your legal right as a parent was removed? Would you be happy to go through a lengthy adoption process to get parental rights over your child?

How on earth is it acceptable to treat lesbian parents as second class citizens?

Do you not think the non-biological parent has same bond with their children as the mother?

There's this website, www.google.co.uk you can use it to look stuff up.

If the non biological parent is not on the birth certificate they have no parental rights over that child.

True but they can aquire legal parental rights by following the correct process.

From the governement website.
Who has parental responsibility -
A mother automatically has parental responsibility for her child from birth.
A father usually has parental responsibility if he’s either:

• married to the child’s mother
• listed on the birth certificate (after a certain date, depending on which part of the UK the child was born in)

Apply for parental responsibility -
If you’re not the mother, you can apply to court to get parental responsibility.
You need to be connected to the child, for example as their father, step-parent or 2nd female parent.
More than 2 people can have parental responsibility for the same child.
Link https://www.gov.uk/parental-rights-responsibilities/apply-for-parental-responsibility

According to that assuming one of the lesbians is the mother she gets parental rights automatically. The second can apply through the courts, it even mentions "2nd female parent", to get parental rights.

Why would anyone want to take away a lesbian's right to be the legal mother of a child they have raised.

No one is taking away anyone's rights. You are imagining rights that don't exist. Lets say two lesbians have a kid together, one of them is the mother. The mother gets rights automatically. Both lesbians then apply jointly to the courts for the second to get legal parental rights, they get it, imagined catastrophe averted. During that time they both behave like parents anyway because they are a couple. It's just some paperwork.
How anyone is taking away anyone's rights after they have raised a child you'll have to explain. Perhaps if they separate the mother's rights take primacy, but like any separation with kids it could end up in the courts. The mother lesbian or otherwise retains her parental rights because she's the mother.

Those are two different things, as well you know.

it's impossible to ever get parental rights for a child if you're not on the birth certificate then?

oh hang on a minute, actually it is possible, 'cos adoption

lt's interesting that you always draw the worst possible inference from her actions.

maybe she's not trying to deprive lesbians of parental rights? maybe she worries that listing people who aren't the biological parents on a birth certificate is the thin end of a wedge that ends with a woman who has gestated a baby as a surrogate for 2 men not being listed on that child's birth certificate

If the non biological parent is not on the birth certificate they have no parental rights over that child.

Why would anyone want to take away a lesbian's right to be the legal mother of a child they have raised.

Every time I start warming to KJK

Lol. Poor KJK. We all know how much you want to like her, and she just keeps making it reeely difficult for you.

It doesn't limit the parental rights of gay and lesbian people to state the simple fact that only an opposite-sex couple can produce a child. And the child has rights, too.

That is what we have now in the UK.

My kids have 'mother' and 'parent' on their birth certificate.

"Not reality, but what we want recorded."

But it is reality, if you have it in a field for "mother's partner and legal guardian".

I'm not suggesting that anyone is allowed to falsify anything.

Not all lesbians use British donors.

Not all children born via sperm donors are born to lesbian parents.

Your go.

Just say it can't be changed. It's a record of the circumstances of birth.

Interesting you used the word circumstances there. A gentle way of not saying parents, but a lot more lived experiency turn of phrase. Not reality, but what we want recorded.
I also find it interesting that as people in the thread have mentioned that the birth certificate can record untruths purely to keep adult egos happy. But at the same time at 18 a person is allowed to know their real parents. It's almost as if that information has to be recorded and stored somewhere so there is actually a record of who the biological parents were. Maybe they could make that into a certificate one day?
How long before there are demands for this information wherever and however it's stored to reflect what the adults want for validation? It can only be a matter of time....

Is this one of the left's tablets of stone? The ten comments of smearing bigots?

Thou shalt always mention the rightyist right person you can think of, and call them a homophobe in any discussion about law and ethics to ward off evil spirits, amxn.

What I dont understand, having checked the .gov.uk website, is how it is possible that there are UK issued birthcertificates with same sex parents. https://www.gov.uk/parental-rights-responsibilities/who-has-parental-responsibility

Its quite clear that a UK Birth Certificate records the biological facts at birth, and from that there are or can be parental responsibilities. Seperately acknowledged for same sex couples.

It seems that this arguement about same sex parents being on a birth certificate are part of the TRA arguements that legal documents can lie about biological facts.

And in fact wasn't there a court case about magical "father" who gave birth to a child trying to insist they were on the baby's birth certificate as the "father".

I dont know what KJK said about it, and who cares.

But I certainly dont think, if as alleged her saying a Birth Certificate should show biological correct facts, make her homophobic.

After all the whole point of homosexuality is that it is about being same SEX attracted, not because someone wants to play act a wife or a husband.

Just say it can't be changed. It's a record of the circumstances of birth.

The mother's partner isn't always going to be relevant, but if two people deliberately "had" a child together, then it seems kind of relevant, especially if they are adopting the child and becoming a legal guardian.