Labour canvasser today

A lot of people are incredibly attached to tribal loyalties, and cling to old certainties and beliefs about the world - that goes for people of all political persuasions.I live in a city in which there have been no Tory councillors or MPs for over 50 years - and there is a dyed in the wool, 'baked in' hatred of 'Tories'. So, I get why so many are attached to voting Labour. It forms an essential part of many people's social identity.

I similarly, genuinely, hated Margaret Thatcher in the early 1980's and all Tories resembeld, to me, a bunch of Spiitting Image puppets. Norman Tebbit "On yer bike" and so on. Being on the Left and holding passionate views about social equality and deprivation is a consuming passion, and it easily becomes very volatile, over- emotional and over-heated

Because socialism is rooted in idealism it can never be fulfilled, and so there remains this permanent state of anger and injustice ( look at Owen Jones who exists in a permanent state of rage) - and which fuels the sort of student politics of Jeremy Corbyn too - who has not changed his tune his whole life.

When I speak to Liz Truss, I'll have to split my Q's between her disastrous time as PM and her views on women's issues.

As surreal as it gets.

I did this last time. I asked my representative if he could tell me what a woman was. He could not. Asked him if he thought men of any gender should be in womens sports. He fudged. He then asked me to join the party as I am obviously passionate about this issue.
I told him why would I pay good money to be patronised.
He (I kid you not) thought I alone could change this from the top down.

He is a moron, I wont be voting for him.

Some people on this thread seem to think this is a brand new issue.
It's not, its been rolling on for more than 20 years. Plenty of us have already quizzed our MPs , written to our MPs etc.

Personally think you should loook at your actual candidates for MP; interrogate them thoroughly on issues you consider most important. If they align, you like them, they are hard working and you think they have integrity then vote for them - regardless of party.

That's going to be my approach going forward. Your MP is there to represent you. Don't vote for a party out of a sense of tribal attachment and habit.

My Labour MP is not someone who I have any affinity with; she refuses to meet with her constituents if they don't align with her ideology. How could I possibly vote for her in good faith?

If there is no candidate I can respect and trust then I'll spoil my ballot.

The Tories have made many mistakes and may well be pretty incompetent.
But IMO anyone who would want Keir - 1 in a 1000 women have a penis - Starmer as PM is a very poor judge of what the country needs.

Women don't need human rights. The clue is in the name Tory human rights.

So you'd vote Tory if all the candidates were genderwoo?

The main good thing this shambles of a Tory Government has done, was to generously fund people during covid to keep the social fabric together. They even got the rough sleepers off the streets. We are paying the price now as huge amounts have been borrowed.
Also the covid vaccine being quite quickly available in the UK was a relief at the time and Johnson/Truss started rolling back gender woo and cancel culture but far too slowly.

Also even a TWAW Tory should be respecting the right to free speech of other party members and constituents who disagree. We lose 'free speech' at our peril. Certainly don't trust my old party (Labour) with it.

I've never heard of him before. I wouldn't vote for a 'TWAW' Tory unless the other candidates were even worse (=also pro) on gender woo.

There's only so many piss-soaked duck-faced protestors in see through frocks and rapists in women's jails and 15 year olds getting mastectomies can happen before everyone in the country has first hand knowledge of at least one of these things.

We know how it tends to go.

Historically all parties were broad churches, with certain factions dominating. With the Tories, the Eurosceptics have held sway since Thatcher.
But I don't detect any party line on trans with the Tories, Mordaunt and Cates are equally able to speak up.

I don't see any freedom in the Labour Party here, no way could you have Lloyd Russell Moyle and Rosie Duffield on the same panel.

There is enforced groupthink that is totally unhealthy for democracy.

Funny how people like Mike Freer never think about women’s human rights when they put forward the idea that even debate is wrong. Oh yes, I forgot, we’re support humans so don’t count.

The U.K. does feel an anomaly atm with so many in Europe going to the right.

I’m amazed at how little is being discussed with what’s coming generally but no party here will avoid migration being a huge concern for citizens.

After this economic policy will have very little room to move, with a small dusting of envy policies or something like the IHT policy

Than this gender bollocks. The last croak of authoritarian left. It’s depressing as hell but women are strong here. We can do it, get rid of it.

Tory MP Mike Freer is at it again. "Human rights" (by which he means trans "rights") "really are not debatable". Once again he likens women's concerns about males in their safe spaces to male homophobia in the eighties.

He has previously condemned the "horrible debate on body parts" (ie being concerned about transwomanly penises) as dehumanising people.

This totalitarian misogyny is a cross-party affliction.

I'm grimly beginning to wonder if it might take the dystopia to get the 'it doesn't affect me/I'll strip with any male who asks me' women and the remaining sane politicians up off their bums and doing something about it.

If Labour win, this is going to be ten times harder, and it's going to get one hell of a lot uglier. But we may end up with a meaningful, useful opposition and a women's rebellion that is strong enough to make more of a difference. Particularly as we've seen the 'women's rights' that the Suffragettes achieved was really nothing more than a few surface gestures.

Women really need to be realising: if it's been this easy to remove your sex based rights and your right to equality of access with men, how bloody easy will it be to use the same tactics to remove your vote?

Nice women get undressed with men with dubious agendas and don't say anything. Nice women shag men even if they're homosexual. Nice women don't mention reality. Nice women unquestioningly enable and pretend they can't see the problems. Nice women don't want equality or sex based rights. Nice women don't want a vote. It's a little, natural step.

On the other hand Europe is swinging right wing. Hard. The pendulum has been forced right over and it's going to swing back. Tolerance and indulgence of luxury beliefs is going to be hard to keep going in the current European situation, and the general public world wide are starting to get fed up of having stuff rammed down their throats and being told sparkly bullshit.

Women may really be forced into JSO type slow protests. I can see the late 2020s being massive upheaval.

My prediction, not AI but sheer hunch, is that the country goes back to the polls in 2026, and elects a Badenoch or Cates led Tory party, that will be unequivocal in support of women's rights here.

Just check out Matthew Goodwin's take on the culture war, the Tories have to take a stance here to have any chance of relevancy and electability.

I have taken the views and opinions expressed on this thread, the current opinion polls and the most recent social surveys and loaded them into the most sophisticated AI analysis engine available (aka my own hopelessly unstructured guesswork).

Labour will have a majority of about 100 after the next election. This means that there will be approximately 180 newly elected Labour MPs. The vast majority of them will be SJWs aged between their late 20s and their mid 30s. They will have no tradition of respect for leadership or loyalty. Does anybody see KS resisting their demands for self-id, amending the EA to remove single sex protection or the banning of trans conversation therapy?

In return Labour will find that the financial constraints are such that they will be unable to make any difference at all in the things that really impact us such as healthcare, welfare, social services or education.

We are actually doomed to dystopia.

Shit, I wish I hadn't just written this. I now feel really depressed and I don't think that a box of Teacakes will cheer me up.

What are you basing this assessment on?

"...assuming no-one changes the direction of the ship..."
...that's a pretty big assumption.

I think Morduant is done as a candidate for leader, her last go drove that nail into the coffin quite firmly. She may not know that, but no one serious will back her.

What are you basing that assessment on?

The state doesn't turn on a dime, it just doesn't. The political ministers do not have direct control over a great many parts of the state, that's by design and overall it's a very good thing. They can't just go directly interfering in bodies that are meant to have some level of independence.

But in this case, it took a good 10 years for this stuff to really infiltrate our public institutions and civil service. There is a whole generation of younger people in these institutions now who only know that way of thinking. They've set up many of the systems to work in the favour of their view of the world.

It will take another 10 years to really turn it all around. It's very much the old tanker analogy. It's a wide, slow turn, but the UK, or England anyway, is in the turn now. Assuming no one changes the direction of the ship again, it will slowly come about.

I believe that if Starmer makes it in 2024, there'll be a two step process.

Trans conversion ban allied to anti hate speech laws in 2024-28 first term, mandated by policy written in 2024 manifesto.

Stepping stone to some version of Self ID in 2028-2032 second term, winning that term in 2028 will be "justified" by the UK population being content with the previous legislation, the elites will claim they're linked, a "one-two" step.

Right now, the only way I see this not happening is if Starmer govt collapses mid term precipitating a Tory govt led by Badenoch or Cates.

However, the law of unintended consequences in politics is that Mordaunt is Tory opposition leader in 2025/6, not Badenoch or Cates.

And we all know what that means...

making self ID law will look to Labour like an easy quick cheap win

Quite! In fact because the economics are so dire & they’ve said they’ll basically stick to what the Tories are doing, they’ll go for the easy and as they’ll see it ‘cheap’ win. It’s like why the corporates will shove signs on all their loos saying they’re gender neutral but not do anything for equalities that requires spending any actual money like modifying peoples or equipment for people with disabilities