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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Labour canvasser today

610 replies

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 15/07/2023 10:59

I'm in one the constituencies with a by-election coming up.

Just had a labour canvasser (woman, mid/late fifties) knock to ask if I was voting. I said yes I would be.

She asked if I knew who I was voting for. I asked if she knew what a woman was. I told her I was a single issue voter and that was the only issue that was going to decide how I voted.

Her response: "I believe a woman is anyone who believes themself to be a woman".

I told her in that case I have nothing else to say to her, and closed the door.

I would have loved to have actually put some of the issues to her (rapists in prisons, assaults in mixed sex spaces, including schools, destruction of women's sports etc) but my heart was already racing and I knew it would be like talking to a brick wall anyway.

But anyway - at least that's a clear pile in the eye for the whole 'it doesn't come up on the doorstep' nonsense.

So, I'm either voting Tory or SDP.

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ZeldaFighter · 16/07/2023 00:13

SammyScrounge · 16/07/2023 00:07

You will find it impossible to fight. Look what has happened.in Scotland where no regard whatsoever.is given to women's views. Starmer is in thrall to the trans movement in the same way as Sturgeon was.

Yesterday, the UCI banned transgender women from women's events. So this year, that's cycling, swimming and athletics fighting back against gender ideology. Before this, it was triathlon and rugby. Sports and the debacle in Scotland over Isla Bryson is highlighting what this gender business actually means in real life (not on the Internet). Imo, Starmer will just quietly drop "trans stuff " and get on with the economy, NHS, etc etc first. Which would be great, again imo.

SammyScrounge · 16/07/2023 00:07

ZeldaFighter · 15/07/2023 12:43

While I think this is a massive issue, I will still vote Labour. As is often said, you don't have to agree with everyone on everything and this is my only real point of disagreement with Labour policies. I will fight this corner when Labour are in power.

You will find it impossible to fight. Look what has happened.in Scotland where no regard whatsoever.is given to women's views. Starmer is in thrall to the trans movement in the same way as Sturgeon was.

nebulae · 15/07/2023 23:29

Thank you @Rudderneck ,very interesting.

Mandated pronouns [shudder] 😐

MrGHardy · 15/07/2023 22:47

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 15/07/2023 10:59

I'm in one the constituencies with a by-election coming up.

Just had a labour canvasser (woman, mid/late fifties) knock to ask if I was voting. I said yes I would be.

She asked if I knew who I was voting for. I asked if she knew what a woman was. I told her I was a single issue voter and that was the only issue that was going to decide how I voted.

Her response: "I believe a woman is anyone who believes themself to be a woman".

I told her in that case I have nothing else to say to her, and closed the door.

I would have loved to have actually put some of the issues to her (rapists in prisons, assaults in mixed sex spaces, including schools, destruction of women's sports etc) but my heart was already racing and I knew it would be like talking to a brick wall anyway.

But anyway - at least that's a clear pile in the eye for the whole 'it doesn't come up on the doorstep' nonsense.

So, I'm either voting Tory or SDP.

Politicians lie all the time. How can she not realise what your views are and just lie to get your vote. So much hubris to believe they don't need your vote because their view on this matter is more important.

SunnyEgg · 15/07/2023 22:27

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 15/07/2023 22:25

I prefer the openly TWAW ones to disingenuous twunts who pretend to support women's rights, while covertly trying to purge the Party of GC women.

That too

And the no one is talking about it buggers

JanesLittleGirl · 15/07/2023 22:25

FigRollsAlly · 15/07/2023 22:12

I am so disappointed in Wes Streeting. He comes across well and seems to talk sense but then I find out what a nasty piece of work he has been, and yet he has the gall to talk about women having been gaslit on gender. Yes, Wes, by you! Own it and apologise.

Ladies and Gentlemen! Before your very Eyes! I present to you the Amazing Wes Streeting! Just five, yes Five, years ago he was the witchfinder general, seeking out and destroying Gender Critical members of the Labour Party but Now! Through the miracle of Transmogrification, no less! He has transformed himself into the very modern model of a modern reasonable Person. (Applause).

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 15/07/2023 22:25

SunnyEgg · 15/07/2023 22:14

Labour TWAW men are so bloody depressing

I prefer the openly TWAW ones to disingenuous twunts who pretend to support women's rights, while covertly trying to purge the Party of GC women.

SunnyEgg · 15/07/2023 22:14

Labour TWAW men are so bloody depressing

FigRollsAlly · 15/07/2023 22:12

I am so disappointed in Wes Streeting. He comes across well and seems to talk sense but then I find out what a nasty piece of work he has been, and yet he has the gall to talk about women having been gaslit on gender. Yes, Wes, by you! Own it and apologise.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 15/07/2023 21:42

elastamum · 15/07/2023 13:56

If you want to hear where the labour front bench may be going on this issue it is worth listening to Wes Streeting on the latest News Agents podcast. He talks about the need for single sex spaces, recognises the Scottish GRA is a mess and even admits that women were gaslit over the issue. He says that you can't just legislate and just hope for the best. It is a very interesting discussion and he says a lot of things I have not previously heard from the labour front bench.

Wes Streeting was part of a secret FB group, to drive GC women out of the party. He is a sinister little shit and a liar to boot.

ResisterRex · 15/07/2023 21:35

ZeldaFighter · 15/07/2023 12:43

While I think this is a massive issue, I will still vote Labour. As is often said, you don't have to agree with everyone on everything and this is my only real point of disagreement with Labour policies. I will fight this corner when Labour are in power.

Welcome to the other side of that, society-wide:

Civil Service Trans and intersex guide - write to your MP
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4849444-civil-service-trans-and-intersex-guide-write-to-your-mp

twitter.com/terfonyourturf/status/1679928974678401024?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

Theunamedcat · 15/07/2023 21:31

Snickers94 · 15/07/2023 21:26

I can't believe you'd vote Tory just because of that after everything they've done? All the lies during the pandemic, the chronic underfunding of the NHS and schools, the racism and general ineptitude?

They are a single issue voter

Theunamedcat · 15/07/2023 21:29

Raise it on twitter raise it publicly raise it loud the more sunlight the better im blacklisted from being canvassed apparently they go to one neighbours house then around to my others im clearly there they cross the road to avoid me my crime? Asking if they support rapists being put into women's prisons asking if its policy to lock up victims with perpetrators do they lock up male rapists with men? In general population? Or do they isolate them? Kind of questions 🤔

Snickers94 · 15/07/2023 21:26

I can't believe you'd vote Tory just because of that after everything they've done? All the lies during the pandemic, the chronic underfunding of the NHS and schools, the racism and general ineptitude?

OceanicBoundlessness · 15/07/2023 21:24

Our labour canvasser and MP candidate in the next elections was apoplectic with rage and talked over me. His main point being "it's not like in the daily mail". I followed up with an email giving my concerns and saying how uncomfortable he had made me by talking over me on my own doorstep.
The none apology that I received back had Russell Moyle undertones. I'm not sure how deliberate that was as I'd mentioned him in my email.

The woman with him at least mentioned changing rooms but he didn't give either of us chance to speak on that issue.

maltravers · 15/07/2023 21:23

I second your opinion of Boris eyeball, but will Keir be a feeble ninny, unable to say “boo” to Momentum?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 15/07/2023 21:20

Tbf boris was finally booted out by his own party because he was vacuous lying narcissistic sociopath who couldn’t be trusted to run a bath let alone a country

not because he erred on the side of being GC

SunnyEgg · 15/07/2023 21:18

I’d like Starmer to get off the fence and stop deflecting

At least we can assess actual policy

My prediction is issues around immigration will become very different in the coming years, and not just for the U.K.

maltravers · 15/07/2023 21:16

I’m looking forward to hearing KJK debating with Keir Starmer. I imagine journalists are feeling the same way.

Rudderneck · 15/07/2023 21:14

nebulae · 15/07/2023 15:44

@Rudderneck could you tell us a little bit about what it's like on the ground in Canada now? I'd be interested to hear what the actual impact has been.

It's quite different than the UK.

We are starting, finally, to see some awareness of the issues in society in general. For a long time there was almost no reporting at all, so public awareness was non-existent.

What's going on in the US and UK has now somewhat punctured that bubble, although there is really only one news outlet that really follows it.

But the legal element is significant. Gender identity is protected in hr legislation in most if not all provinces, things like use of pronouns are mandated. Which all makes reporting openly, complaining at work, or in a school, more difficult. How these would play out if challenged in court isn't a sure thing, but the courts have a lot of power compared to the UK, including throwing out legislation. At the moment the judiciary seems very captured, as is education, health, and the civil service (which had a drag contest for employees last year.) Education too.

There is also the "conversion therapy" ban which makes it very scary for a parent to access any mental health care for their teens.

Recently, there was one premier, in New Brunswick, who is leader of the provincial Tory Party, who has tried to bring in a law outlawing schools transitioning pupils without informing parents. There has been a huge backlash in the media, including within his own party - he may well lose the leadership over it. It seems to be taken for granted that schools should keep secrets from parents. GSL clubs are common, even at the elementary level, and seem to mainly be a place for kids who don't fit in to feel welcomed.

OiCatThatsMySeat · 15/07/2023 21:11

I don't think if Labour get in they'll go full twaw (I do think there is a higher chance that they might if they go into coalition with the LDs). My guess is they'll go for some kind of compromise position that annoys people on both sides of the debate.

I'll vote Labour because while I am angry at their position on women's rights, I feel there is more to hate about the Tories' policies: my recently hiked up mortgage payments (cheers Liz, i won't forget that in a hurry), their stance on migrants and the hateful Rwanda policy, what they are doing to the HE sector and the NHS...you name it. Yes I think Miriam Cates is impressive on safeguarding and women's rights, but I heard her on R4 recently on the subject of immigration and her views on this are unhinged IMHO.

GrumpyPanda · 15/07/2023 21:10

AgathaSpencerGregson · 15/07/2023 20:43

Does he? I am not sure underestimating the intelligence of the electorate to this extent is really that smart.
poor little Keir is under the illusion that current polling demonstrates that people like him. They don’t; they just hate the other guys. If he had more nous he’d act accordingly.

"Safe" spaces should be a red flag. I'm in Germany where debate is currently ongoing about Self-ID, and one of the ploys used by transactivists is reducing everything to a debate about safety in public spaces (with all the usual bingo card stuff, danger rears its head at home/it's all "cis" men, yada yada.) Thus neatly sidestepping whether or not - as would be the case under current law - women should have a right to PRIVACY in public spaces. Especially those involving nudity, such as communal showers and changing rooms, with the former being the absolute norm for gyms or municipal swimming pools.

SeatonCarew · 15/07/2023 21:06

RealityFan · 15/07/2023 18:35

I'm already resolving to voting for an independent. This is Liz Truss country, about as safe a Tory seat as they come.

Can't wait to torture her, and the Lab and LD candidates over the What Is A Woman? question.

But I've resolved never to vote for any party that is happy to defy material reality.

Liz Truss has been clear from the off that she knows what a woman is.

dcbc1234 · 15/07/2023 20:54

They are just fobbing us off I suppose. The BBC had Stephen Nolan do that enquiry into the BBC and Stonewall but what has changed as a result?

dcbc1234 · 15/07/2023 20:52

RealityFan · 15/07/2023 20:25

You've pretty much summed it up.

She said all that when ?

And what year is it now ?

Well I think Boris came to agree with her hence why they backed off the Conversion Therapy thing and that 'Safe To Be Me' Conference was cancelled by the (LGB)T side who threw their toys out of the pram when Boris correctly changed to say it would cover sexual orientation but not gender identity.
If you hadn't noticed Boris and Liz were both mysteriously knifed by their own parties...one over a crap sandwich and piece of cake which no one would shut up about... and both were PM at the time.
It does make you wonder who is behind these dark forces at work against women's rights and child safeguarding. It can't all be down to Theresa May and Penny 'TWAW' Mordaunt can it?