Page 19 | Labour canvasser today

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 2023-07-15T09:59:12+00:00

I'm in one the constituencies with a by-election coming up. Just had a labour canvasser (woman, mid/late fifties) knock to ask if I was voting. I said yes I would be. She asked if I knew who I was voting for. I asked if she knew what a woman was. I told her I was a single issue voter and that was the only issue that was going to decide how I voted. Her response: "I believe a woman is anyone who believes themself to be a woman". I told her in that case I have nothing else to say to her, and closed the door. I would have loved to have actually put some of the issues to her (rapists in prisons, assaults in mixed sex spaces, including schools, destruction of women's sports etc) but my heart was already racing and I knew it would be like talking to a brick wall anyway. But anyway - at least that's a clear pile in the eye for the whole 'it doesn't come up on the doorstep' nonsense. So, I'm either voting Tory or SDP.

AgathaSpencerGregson · 16/07/2023 09:45

RebelliousCow · 16/07/2023 09:26

Labour has got a lot to live up to if people really think they are going to be able to solve some of those fundamental issues and crises that we are currently suffering with. I anticipate a lot of grave disappointment and a whole lot of rage and anger - especially from those on the Left who have been silenced and cast out by Starmer.

Reeves is pledged to keeping within the financial contraints she has inherited. how can you solve all of the above with pretty much the same resources, and a bit of cutlery re-arranging?

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The VAT on private school fees is going to have to stretch awful long way isnt it
labour really are a bunch of absolute tools

LoobiJee · 16/07/2023 09:43

@IJustHadToLookHavingReadTheBook

“Come on. You'd be better joining the Labour Party and fighting your corner from within. The issue of sex-based rights is important, and I don't deny it's place in political debate, but it's a small slice of a very large pie. Single-issue voting doesn't make sense when the country is in the state it is and being run by these people who wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. If you vote for this corrupt and frankly evil government, I hope that you can look yourself in the mirror. “

Can you talk us through what success you’ve had as a member of the Labour Party fighting your corner from within? Posters on here are generally very keen to learn from those with experience and insight. What actions, arguments and tactics were most / least successful in your experience?

If you’re in Scotland which arguments/ tactics were the cause of you failing to persuade Scottish Labour to vote against the SNP’s GRA bill, would you say?

If you’re in Wales, what arguments / tactics, in your opinion, were the cause of you failing to persuade Welsh Labour against committing to seeking powers to introduce their own GRA bill and conversion therapy legislation?

Conservative Women seem to have been much more successful than Labour women at persuading their parties to listen. Why do you think GC Labour women haven’t had the same success? And why do you think Rosie Duffield is so isolated as an ‘out’ GC Labour MP?

AgathaSpencerGregson · 16/07/2023 09:43

RebelliousCow · 16/07/2023 09:39

It won't matter once Labour is in power, plus they'll have the manifesto pledges that people have voted for.

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i suppose what I’m saying is why would you hand your opponents ammunition? Unless you’re just incredibly complacent or dim

RebelliousCow · 16/07/2023 09:39

AgathaSpencerGregson · 16/07/2023 09:22

i would have thought that the Tories will be poised to jump on anything they say and capitalise on it though; can labour really be dim enough not to anticipate this?

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It won't matter once Labour is in power, plus they'll have the manifesto pledges that people have voted for.

SunnyEgg · 16/07/2023 09:36

pues · 16/07/2023 09:30

God KS was absolutely useless on the BBC this morning!
LK absolutely wiped the floor with him.

I missed it but my god he’s bad in those situations

If I didn’t think it would be so damaging for women and girls I’d have them in just to dispel the idea they’re going to be any good

ResisterRex · 16/07/2023 09:32

RebelliousCow · 16/07/2023 09:18

Personally think people are deluding thesmelves if they think that Labour will drop Self Id. They still meet with Stonewall, are still signed up, and recently Ian Anderson has joined their ranks ( on the board of stonewall)

Exactly. It'll happen. Just look what they're up to in Wales. And Labour whipped to support self-ID in Scotland.

The infiltration of our public and private institutions has only been resisted as much as it has, due to various women putting themselves through hell, and a combination of Conservatives who reject that level of interference in our lives, and the Lords.

pues · 16/07/2023 09:32

The panel not impressed at all

RebelliousCow · 16/07/2023 09:31

IJustHadToLookHavingReadTheBook · 16/07/2023 09:04

As I said, I knew I'd get flamed and I'm not blind to or saying that the trans rights/womens rights questions aren't valid and important... I just don't think that supporting this bunch of criminal cunts currently in government because "they know what a woman is" is the answer. They're playing on it and they're laughing at you; they don't give a fuck about what a woman is or isn't, they're just looking for another route to fill their coffers a bit more before they get booted into opposition. They're giving the answer you want to hear so that you vote for a bit more of their corruption for a bit longer. It's all a game to them.

Demonising/deheumanising a whole range of people in such a way is not very edifying. As someone has just stated - hatred that is based on tribal feeling is not enough to make an incoming Labour government successful.

I'm an ex Labour Party member. I don't every single conservative party member is a " cunt". In fact.., i like a nd have respect for quite a few. And vice versa, I have strong antipathy to quite a number in the Labour Party - including my own MP.

Hatred is no way to build unity

pues · 16/07/2023 09:30

God KS was absolutely useless on the BBC this morning!
LK absolutely wiped the floor with him.

SunnyEgg · 16/07/2023 09:30

IJustHadToLookHavingReadTheBook · 16/07/2023 09:04

As I said, I knew I'd get flamed and I'm not blind to or saying that the trans rights/womens rights questions aren't valid and important... I just don't think that supporting this bunch of criminal cunts currently in government because "they know what a woman is" is the answer. They're playing on it and they're laughing at you; they don't give a fuck about what a woman is or isn't, they're just looking for another route to fill their coffers a bit more before they get booted into opposition. They're giving the answer you want to hear so that you vote for a bit more of their corruption for a bit longer. It's all a game to them.

People pointed out the flaws in your post.

Not remotely ‘flamed’

RebelliousCow · 16/07/2023 09:26

IJustHadToLookHavingReadTheBook · 16/07/2023 08:39

Well, aren't you clever @SirSamVimesCityWatch. Definitely vote Tory though yeah, they're plunging ever-increasing numbers of children into poverty; they're still not promising a fully-funded pay-rises for the public sectors (despite Thursdays announcement) so your kids schools will continue go be crippled and our hospitals underfunded; the Prime Minister literally sneers whenever anyone asks him a question in parliament because he thinks that he's above question and debate (and he propped up Boris Johnson, a man who's literally a criminal and is continuing to do criminal things now he's out of office) AND Food Bank use is through the roof and the housing market is fucked. But at least they know what a woman is!

Come on. You'd be better joining the Labour Party and fighting your corner from within. The issue of sex-based rights is important, and I don't deny it's place in political debate, but it's a small slice of a very large pie. Single-issue voting doesn't make sense when the country is in the state it is and being run by these people who wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. If you vote for this corrupt and frankly evil government, I hope that you can look yourself in the mirror.

FWIW I know that I'm going to get flamed, and that's a shame because I consider myself a feminist and am certainly not unquestioning regarding the way that the Transgender issue has taken over political discourse in this country, by you have got to wake up to the bigger picture here: kids are starving, schools are on their knees, hospitals are collapsing and there's more to care about.

Labour has got a lot to live up to if people really think they are going to be able to solve some of those fundamental issues and crises that we are currently suffering with. I anticipate a lot of grave disappointment and a whole lot of rage and anger - especially from those on the Left who have been silenced and cast out by Starmer.

Reeves is pledged to keeping within the financial contraints she has inherited. how can you solve all of the above with pretty much the same resources, and a bit of cutlery re-arranging?

AgathaSpencerGregson · 16/07/2023 09:22

RebelliousCow · 16/07/2023 09:16

Is Self Id still in the Labour manifesto? If so, a vote for Labour will be a vote for Self Id - and that uis the reason they'll give. That's certainly the angle my Labour MP takes.

They keep putting of talking about specific commitments they'll make. i reckon they'll only rerlease a new manifesto very close to the next election once they are confident of victory, no matter what the manifesto contains.

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i would have thought that the Tories will be poised to jump on anything they say and capitalise on it though; can labour really be dim enough not to anticipate this?

AgathaSpencerGregson · 16/07/2023 09:18

IJustHadToLookHavingReadTheBook · 16/07/2023 09:04

As I said, I knew I'd get flamed and I'm not blind to or saying that the trans rights/womens rights questions aren't valid and important... I just don't think that supporting this bunch of criminal cunts currently in government because "they know what a woman is" is the answer. They're playing on it and they're laughing at you; they don't give a fuck about what a woman is or isn't, they're just looking for another route to fill their coffers a bit more before they get booted into opposition. They're giving the answer you want to hear so that you vote for a bit more of their corruption for a bit longer. It's all a game to them.

Standard Twitter babble. Dismissed.

RebelliousCow · 16/07/2023 09:18

Personally think people are deluding thesmelves if they think that Labour will drop Self Id. They still meet with Stonewall, are still signed up, and recently Ian Anderson has joined their ranks ( on the board of stonewall)

RebelliousCow · 16/07/2023 09:16

Waitwhat23 · 16/07/2023 01:11

It is going to take decades to sort out our institutions and services up here. Decades. Even now, after the debacle over Isla Bryson, the SPS still hasn't finished the massively overdue review of its policy.

Results of consultations are ignored and concerns raised are dismissed with 'it was in the mandate'. Claims are made by our elected representatives that a vote for the SNP was an explicit vote for GRR.

Even with the recent push backs against the GRR and the downfall of Sturgeon, we're still having to fight tooth and nail. I can only hope that Starmer does drop it all.

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Is Self Id still in the Labour manifesto? If so, a vote for Labour will be a vote for Self Id - and that uis the reason they'll give. That's certainly the angle my Labour MP takes.

They keep putting of talking about specific commitments they'll make. i reckon they'll only rerlease a new manifesto very close to the next election once they are confident of victory, no matter what the manifesto contains.

TommyNever · 16/07/2023 09:12

I'm a British citizen but too long out of UK to vote, but I sympathise with people finding it very difficult to vote for anyone in these circumstances.

Personally I think I'd regard the issue of women's sex-based rights to be important enough to hold my nose and vote Tory, something I wouldn't consider for any other reason.

Ourladycheesusedatum · 16/07/2023 09:11

IJustHadToLookHavingReadTheBook · 16/07/2023 09:04

As I said, I knew I'd get flamed and I'm not blind to or saying that the trans rights/womens rights questions aren't valid and important... I just don't think that supporting this bunch of criminal cunts currently in government because "they know what a woman is" is the answer. They're playing on it and they're laughing at you; they don't give a fuck about what a woman is or isn't, they're just looking for another route to fill their coffers a bit more before they get booted into opposition. They're giving the answer you want to hear so that you vote for a bit more of their corruption for a bit longer. It's all a game to them.

You were not flamed.

You do you, vote how you please, none of us will know or care.

Things have different meanings to each of us. You have your reasons, we have ours. No one is wrong here.

LoobiJee · 16/07/2023 09:05

SammyScrounge · 16/07/2023 00:07

You will find it impossible to fight. Look what has happened.in Scotland where no regard whatsoever.is given to women's views. Starmer is in thrall to the trans movement in the same way as Sturgeon was.

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It’s interesting to look across the UK.

Labour are third in the Scottish Parliament behind the Tories. They whipped their MSPs to support the SNP’s GRA bill.

In Wales, Labour are the largest party in the Senedd, have been in government for over two decades, and they are publicly committed to seeking extra devolved powers to introduce their own GRA and to introduce a conversion therapy ban. They also use the outdated term “intersex” instead of the DSD terminology preferred by DSD advocacy groups and group “intersex” and “non binary” together.

All the evidence points to there being one direction of travel.

IJustHadToLookHavingReadTheBook · 16/07/2023 09:04

As I said, I knew I'd get flamed and I'm not blind to or saying that the trans rights/womens rights questions aren't valid and important... I just don't think that supporting this bunch of criminal cunts currently in government because "they know what a woman is" is the answer. They're playing on it and they're laughing at you; they don't give a fuck about what a woman is or isn't, they're just looking for another route to fill their coffers a bit more before they get booted into opposition. They're giving the answer you want to hear so that you vote for a bit more of their corruption for a bit longer. It's all a game to them.

Waitwhat23 · 16/07/2023 08:55

It's similar to the 'wheesht for Indy' pish we get up here .

ButterCrackers · 16/07/2023 08:54

That’s a good question. The answer is such a disrespect to women. They wouldn’t be getting my vote.

Ourladycheesusedatum · 16/07/2023 08:53

IJustHadToLookHavingReadTheBook · 16/07/2023 08:39

Well, aren't you clever @SirSamVimesCityWatch. Definitely vote Tory though yeah, they're plunging ever-increasing numbers of children into poverty; they're still not promising a fully-funded pay-rises for the public sectors (despite Thursdays announcement) so your kids schools will continue go be crippled and our hospitals underfunded; the Prime Minister literally sneers whenever anyone asks him a question in parliament because he thinks that he's above question and debate (and he propped up Boris Johnson, a man who's literally a criminal and is continuing to do criminal things now he's out of office) AND Food Bank use is through the roof and the housing market is fucked. But at least they know what a woman is!

Come on. You'd be better joining the Labour Party and fighting your corner from within. The issue of sex-based rights is important, and I don't deny it's place in political debate, but it's a small slice of a very large pie. Single-issue voting doesn't make sense when the country is in the state it is and being run by these people who wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. If you vote for this corrupt and frankly evil government, I hope that you can look yourself in the mirror.

FWIW I know that I'm going to get flamed, and that's a shame because I consider myself a feminist and am certainly not unquestioning regarding the way that the Transgender issue has taken over political discourse in this country, by you have got to wake up to the bigger picture here: kids are starving, schools are on their knees, hospitals are collapsing and there's more to care about.

Is this another after the revolution babe, then we get to silly womens issues?

No wont work this time. This is just too important.

Having said that, we do need a plan for labour getting in.

LoobiJee · 16/07/2023 08:48

GrumpyPanda · 15/07/2023 21:10

"Safe" spaces should be a red flag. I'm in Germany where debate is currently ongoing about Self-ID, and one of the ploys used by transactivists is reducing everything to a debate about safety in public spaces (with all the usual bingo card stuff, danger rears its head at home/it's all "cis" men, yada yada.) Thus neatly sidestepping whether or not - as would be the case under current law - women should have a right to PRIVACY in public spaces. Especially those involving nudity, such as communal showers and changing rooms, with the former being the absolute norm for gyms or municipal swimming pools.

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“one of the ploys used by transactivists is reducing everything to a debate about safety in public spaces (with all the usual bingo card stuff, danger rears its head at home/it's all "cis" men, yada yada.) Thus neatly sidestepping whether or not - as would be the case under current law - women should have a right to PRIVACY in public spaces.”

That is exactly what is happening here in the UK too.

They are using the various sports bodies’ moving to having an “open” and “female” categories to agree that physical safety is important and then to argue that it is the only grounds on which males who claim an opposite sex gender identity should be excluded from female single-sex spaces, services and facilities.

We saw it in the documentary from the TW who is Linda Bellos’s neighbour. And we’ve seen it on here very recently from a poster, who says they are a civil servant and not GC, linking to a discussion of a very narrow set of justifications for single-sex female only provisions.

SunnyEgg · 16/07/2023 08:47

IJustHadToLookHavingReadTheBook · 16/07/2023 08:39

Well, aren't you clever @SirSamVimesCityWatch. Definitely vote Tory though yeah, they're plunging ever-increasing numbers of children into poverty; they're still not promising a fully-funded pay-rises for the public sectors (despite Thursdays announcement) so your kids schools will continue go be crippled and our hospitals underfunded; the Prime Minister literally sneers whenever anyone asks him a question in parliament because he thinks that he's above question and debate (and he propped up Boris Johnson, a man who's literally a criminal and is continuing to do criminal things now he's out of office) AND Food Bank use is through the roof and the housing market is fucked. But at least they know what a woman is!

Come on. You'd be better joining the Labour Party and fighting your corner from within. The issue of sex-based rights is important, and I don't deny it's place in political debate, but it's a small slice of a very large pie. Single-issue voting doesn't make sense when the country is in the state it is and being run by these people who wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. If you vote for this corrupt and frankly evil government, I hope that you can look yourself in the mirror.

FWIW I know that I'm going to get flamed, and that's a shame because I consider myself a feminist and am certainly not unquestioning regarding the way that the Transgender issue has taken over political discourse in this country, by you have got to wake up to the bigger picture here: kids are starving, schools are on their knees, hospitals are collapsing and there's more to care about.

Two problems

Labour won’t have more money

They’ll see higher membership numbers as validation for gender ideology

Original poster

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 16/07/2023 08:47

I see the scolds have arrived.

I forgot I'm not allowed to decided on my own priorities. 🙄

OP posts: