Labour canvasser today

Indeed.

I hope that even if that's not what you wanted to hear from me it proves a thoughtfulness on my part and that I am doing stuff and trying to come up with a workable solution within my own community; I'm not just an armchair warrior mouthing off.

Yes but you are drastically failing, as LoobiJee pointed out.

The Tories may be somewhat opportunistic on this issue (they'd be foolish not to be), but they are certainly not opposed to recognising and protecting women's sex-based rights as Labour continue to be, despite you "doing stuff".

changing the legal definition of woman from “adult human female” to “adult human female and men who self IDthey have lady feelings and are therefore women too” affects every single sex based rights women have

its not a small side issue

It’ll be interesting to see what people say when cutlery rearranging is all it is.

Especially when they keep going on about the last time they were in and building a picture of more of the same.

More money. From where?

Tiny issue...

Yeah. If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs..... then you haven't fully understood the situation.

You are very lucky that this is not affecting you every day yet. I'd like to introduce you to other women and girls in the world who aren't quite so privileged. And you need to realise that it's only a matter of time before you stop being one of the lucky ones.

Yes, a more important issue.

Once written into law, like in Canada for example, the supremacy of gender identity over sex will become almost impossible to roll back. I'm talking decades and decades if ever. Maybe not even in my daughter's lifetime.

That's why for many of us this the most important issue by far.

There are so many other pressing issues facing this country, and which effect me every day, where as self ID, whilst I'm against it, is a tiny issue which doesn't affect me at all. It's not rational to base your entire vote on it.
Also, there hasn't been any SDP for a long time!!

@RebelliousCow they have done criminal things though, like... a lot. On an unprecedented scale for a government in this country, in fact.

I can’t believe that in the 21st fucking century ppl are expecting us to feel sorry for Labour because they can’t come out and say what a woman is

they know exactly what a woman is and the fact they won’t say do means they’re either scared or lying. Neither is great is it

You used the term " criminal cunts". To my mind that is a form of prejudice against a whole group of disparate people, which seeks to demonise them and present them as less than human.

In the age of 24 hour news and social media saturation, alongside the erosion of the boundary between public and private - everything is magnified. Don't expect people on the Labour benches to come out squeaky clean, either.
All sorts of backroom deals, infringments of codes of conduct, irresponsible use of privilege; sexual misconduct will be revealed.

That's not to excuse bad behaviour - but all people, especially when in office, are capable of bad behaviour and of favouring their own specific interests.The specific interests may vary in nature - but people, by and large, are pretty much driven by the same motivations as each other.

A more important issue than the economy, the NHS, infrastructure, the rights of immigrants etc?

Why vote on a single issue?! That’s totally crazy to me.

Hello @LoobiJee

Personally, where I am in the country (London) and at our local branch it's a topic very up for discussion and with diverse views- it's far from being a "TWAW and there's no further discussion" situation in our little corner of the Labour Party. I'm a school governor at a girls school where no trans girls have been admitted and that's an ongoing conversation at my local branch of the party too- conversation about female spaces etc come up often and we are all in agreement that letting trans women in without question or debate is not appropriate in female spaces. I have daughters, I have skin in the game and care deeply and worry a lot about this. I'm very aware of the importance of protecting female spaces and why, but also uncomfortable at some of the anger on the GC side that starts to edge towards bigotry and think of the shadow of the way gay people were treated in society and law until very recently in this country.

I can't speak for the national party and I do think that Starmer and co. are woolly on this stuff, but part of that is because of the nature of our sound-bitey media and a culture war that been stoked up by the Tories precisely in order that they can point and say "Labour don't even know what a woman is!" I genuinely don't believe that the Tories give a rats arse about what a woman is, why would they... they don't care about kids, the elderly, the sick or the otherwise disadvantaged and they protect rapist MPs and sex criminals within their own party... seems weird to me that to some GC women the Tories have become the face of feminism 🤷🏼‍♀️

I hope that even if that's not what you wanted to hear from me it proves a thoughtfulness on my part and that I am doing stuff and trying to come up with a workable solution within my own community; I'm not just an armchair warrior mouthing off.

t’s huge, 50% of the population and all children rely on it. I can’t see past that I’m afraid.

this! I’ve never voted anything but Labour but I’ll be fucked if I’ll vote for a party that goes into the next election regarding the sex based rights of 50% of the population as some insignificant non issue

Politics is about setting out your vision and then implementing it. Opposition is part and parcel of the process.

Or of course, Lloyd Russell-Moyle. Who when he failed to shout female MP's down, sat unnecessarily close to them to make sure they were aware of just how cross he was with them..

Yep. Ever was it thus.

The issue of retaining (let alone progressing) womens rights and the ability to define our sex in law and society is more than just a single issue for me. Self ID or a change of definition, so that female ‘sex’ includes males, has tentacles into every area of life.

Hospital and medical care
Psychiatric and MH services
Crisis support
Sports
Schools
Children’s safeguarding
Dignity at work
Awards and recognition
Pay gap
Representation in politics and society
Representation on boards
Inclusion in R&D, service development and policy
LGB rights
Carers and disabled peoples rights for same sex provision

And yes it’s about dignity and privacy. Safety is a low bar to quibble over IMHO.

The issue of sex-based rights is important, and I don't deny it's place in political debate, but it's a small slice of a very large pie

It’s huge, 50% of the population and all children rely on it. I can’t see past that I’m afraid.

Fine post. I wonder if it will be answered.

Or Mark Drakeford

Bloody hell the misogyny

There are still many in the Labour Party who think winning elections leaves a nasty stain on their reputation. If there's a way of losing, they'll find it.

Just watch Patrick Harvie (Scottish Greens) being challenged by a woman - the sheer rage.

@RebelliousCow I'm not hating the Tories based on anything tribal. Have you seen their antics the last few years?

Surprisingly shit on his feet, given his professional background

I think the R4 one I heard was a male interviewer

He’s not good at those interviews

Like many left wing men he gets twitchy when challenged by women. Corbyn was the same.