Labour canvasser today

Yes it is. The Tories could fix it now, before they are elected out, but they're not going to.

The tories are awful, but why should I vote against my sex based interests? Women are so conditioned to put their own interests last - see Intersectionality in “feminism”. Try telling disabled people they should worry about racism first before tackling disability rights. Try telling black people they should worry about homophobia before addressing racism. Not reasonable? Why do women’s needs have to come at the back if the queue for women then?

I know it’s frustrating. But if you write to your Labour candidate telling them why you are spoiling the vote you would otherwise have cast for them, they can’t pretend they don’t know.

Could be 2.5 years, Jan 2025 the very last month possible. That's a lot of time for this issue to fester.

You can also contact the SDP and British Communist Party to offer your support. Or run alongside KJK. Im sure she'd be haapy with the support of some running mates. The GE is still supposedly more than a year away.

What about the one you didn’t mention?

@RebelliousCow you keep taking and don't wheesht. Tell them how you oppose the TRA and MRA policies pushed by the The Tories for the last 10 or so years.

The push for men to define themselves into women's spaces. The push to monetise children's way out of the natural process of puberty with lifelong effects and subsequent economic and social costs.

Tell them what you want.

What you do in a constituency in which the Labour MP is full on TWAW and refuses to meet her constituents to discuss the issues of importance to them; the Lib Dem candidate is also full on TWAW, and so is the Green candidate?.

Genuine question.

I personally cannot vote for a candidate who is fundamentally in favour of something I am fundamentally against.

Possibly centring the penis is why Labour won't drop the 2 child limit:

twitter.com/rosieduffield1/status/1680583197615091713?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

I just don't understand what they propose at all that would be radically different. In education, I could understand a long-term plan to phase out private school. But I can't understand detonating a bomb that ruins all school for all children (influx of private kids to state, where they absolutely do not have room), for example.

It really is like they're trying to avoid winning.

Exactly. And looking at other countries and Labour I’m surprised not all can see where it’s headed.

We’re giving up that small start at rowing back

Who else is even having debates such as WH and the rest?

Those pp who are loathe the Tories how will you feel when Labour take us to full NZ / Canada?

If you care and say you are GC I can’t imagine it will feel good. I doubt Labour will improve things much anyway so it’ll just be throwing away any hope on this

Please don’t spoil your vote. No one cares what you write unless it’s something smutty and they can get a light story out of it .
politcal parties want your vote. They don’t want a spoilt vote

Without being too political, I have never voted Tory in my 50 years and I never will. However bad Starmer is on this issue, overall I believe he will be better for the country. I suppose I could go Lib Dem but as a lifelong Labour voter, I'm not going to stop now.

You don't have to take one or the other Agatha. You can reject both.

There are far too many MRAs on the Tory benches. But I don't think that is the majority of the party the way it is for Labour. See WHall debate and the GRA vote in Holyrood

I agree with you that the 4.5 tory govts of last 13 years have let this get embedded in far too many ways. But, Tories did pull back from self ID and put the brake on it happening in Scotland. Which would have meant every chancer jumping on a bus north to get a GRC.

It's not that the Tories are great on this. It's looking at other countries and seeing that it could be so much worse under another regime.

As I think we’ve already mentioned, the capture of state institutions has done much damage. However, the legislative framework has not altered, and provides scope to fight back, as maya forstater showed us.
The Tories have no plans to weaken this legal position; indeed they are actively considering ways to strengthen it (clarification of definition of sex). Weak and slow as they have been, I’ll take that over starmers labour any day.

Saw this and thought it summed up the Greens quite well

You think the Tories aren't stuffed with MRAs? Or TRAs?

The trans shitshow in the UK has happened under and because of the Tories. From PM May's speech to Pink News in 2017 to the flip flopping of subsequent PMs. The urging of that typically British fudge that works so well (girls budging up for boys) to the CPS recommendations that withholding funds needed for transition is abuse and a Secretary of State for Education who can't define the word "girl".

My eyes have rolled so far back in my head that I'm convinced that is why my glasses prescription is so strong these days.

I wrote to the sex based debaters from the WH debate

Really good responses from all of them

The Labour Party and the unions that fund the party are both stuffed with men's rights activists.

Agree

The Labour Party and the unions that fund the party are both stuffed with men's rights activists.

The Green party is snapping at Labour's heels. It has ditched any pretence of ecological concerns and gone full Men's Rights. This may be an effective gamble for a niche party. They clearly think it a more winning proposition than boring old climate change.

Out of 195 current Labour MPs I can think of two who respect women's sex based rights.

Has anyone systematically written to each MP? My MP gave a weasel answer which told me all I need to know.

Starmer seems to owe a lot of debts:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12304213/Labour-push-union-reps-paid-campaign-equalities-issues.html

"Labour insists the proposals are geared towards 'protecting people from harassment at work', and would support new mothers, pregnant women and the disabled.

However, union guidelines suggest that campaigning on transphobia will also be covered."

I'm sure we can all guess what will happen in reality there.

And he's such a flip flopper. Like the tree hugging business:

‘I hate tree-huggers’: Starmer rift with Miliband deepens over green agenda

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0751233c-1d0e-11ee-a1d2-5f915afc01a5?shareToken=bc18dc998491e7f62324e0cbb2071972

Or the rule about picket lines. Is it a rule or not?

And let's not forget his Penis News hostage video. Self-ID seems to be the only thing he's not changed his mind on(!)

Me too.

That's fair enough and your personal, individual view Agatha. I am not here to defend or promote Starmer's Labour. I'm neither a Labour nor Conservative voter, they don't stand where I am.

We are not taking about the Tory party of 2016 or 2019. It's the Tory Party of 2015, 2017, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023 going into 2024 that's been chaotic, reckless and contemptuous and continues to be chaotic, reckless, and contemptuous.

To the detriment of the UK, its standing abroad and most of its citizens.

And it seems to me that starmer is clearly of lower calibre than Sunak in every material respect.

Really? Neither are terribly inspiring but I can't see that Sunak has achieved very much in office - Eat Out to Help Out was a bit of a disaster, cowardice over the Privileges Committee report....

Starmer not only rose to the top of his profession from a modest background, he's whipped the Labour Party into shape in short order. He seems like he'd be a competent PM.

I thought the Myra Hindley comparison was excessive. And then I thought of the girls with scars instead of breasts, bodies ravaged by wrong-sex hormones, damaged genitals and organs atrophying inside …..