Sexist leftist antifa men

Some of the posts on this thread (perhaps a lot) are just bonkers

The far left has always been just as unpleasant as the far right - authoritarian and deeply intolerant of opposing views. Neither have been friendly to feminist causes - all regimes at the extremes have been run by men although women who got their foot in the door weren't much better

Mmmmm, ok. But what the Revolution gave, the Red Terror and the Holodomor took away.

Possibly the Soviet Union is not a great benchmark for any sort of humn rights, not just women.

A Labour government has become the new "global socialism" - far more important than women's sex based rights (which won't be addressed later, because twaw, bigots etc).

In my experience it's rare for left wing groups to sing the praises of the Soviet Union. Having said that, the revolution - in which women played a significant part - did bring significant gains for women relative to tsarist Russia.

Misogyny and sexism on the Left is a feature, not a bug.

Andrea Dworkin wrote eloquently about her experiences of being in Left Activist meetings in the 60s, 70s and 80s - how the men would talk over the women and laugh at them when they tried to speak about feminism, telling them that achieving global socialism was far more important than feminism, which could always be addressed later, as an afterthought.

Interestingly Leftist Intellectual Ash Sarkar posted something very similar in 2019.

There's also this idea on the Left that life for women in the USSR was a utopia of equal rights. This represents a fundamental misunderstanding of Soviet ideology and modes of thinking. In the USSR, women had to work whether they wanted to or not because all human beings who were physically able had to become robotic parts of the Communist Machine, whether that meant crushingly long hours in factories or being sent to certain death on the Stalingrad front line in the 1941 as cannon fodder. Individual humanism was not valued, one's role as a cog in the machine was what counted.

However in actuality, especially by the time we get to the 70s and 80s, childcare in the USSR was so expensive that women had to leave their children home alone whilst they worked their 12 and 14 hour shifts. Thus leading to the crisis of the 'abandoned children' which the Soviet Govt tried unsuccessfully to address.

I personally don't think feminism and hardcore far leftism are compatible.

Jo Brew has some interesting thoughts about why so many on the left, men in particular, are all for TWAW.

Transgenderism is the new Socialism
This essay looks at why the supposed champion of the underdog, the Left, has not sprung to defend women or material reality in this clash of rights.
29 May 2022

jobrew.substack.com/p/transgenderism-is-the-new-socialism

Mary Daly Understood Transgenderism Four Decades Ago
25 July 2022
"Most commentators on transgenderism start by saying they are not anti-trans, they are not radical feminists and they had no idea it was coming: for them the ideology came out of the blue. They talk about a stealthy take over, of captured institutions, of goodwilled but misguided professionals. They describe the madness and conclude that when people see the illogical insanity they will reject it. If only that were true. I argue in this essay that transgenderism is best understood as a development of gynaecology, the mind and body attack on Western women that developed in the 19th century, and continues now. In her 1978 book, Gyn/Ecology, Mary Daly describes five gynocidal atrocities committed by men and names them “The Sado-Ritual Syndrome: the Re-enactment of Goddess Murder”. This essay examines Daly’s 1978 thesis, suggests how it applies today and looks at how her insights can help us in our struggle against the current woman hating craze, global transgenderism."

jobrew.substack.com/p/mary-daly-understood-transgenderism

Fratriotism
Fratriotism is love of the rule of the brothers, like patriotism is love of the nation. The swift spread of transgenderism is caused by spontaneous fratriotic acts, not just "capture" or force
25 Feb 2023

jobrew.substack.com/p/fratriotism

Froodwithatowel - "the misogyny is writ very large in the men with no skin in the game who see the role of women as being kind of walking Florence Nightingale AI units with sex provision attachments"

This is so good: so funny and yet so on the nail that it is simultaneously horrifying.

Those men are not just on the left though.

As an aside, does anyone else think that there has been a shift towards more nuance in discussions on FWR in the last couple of years when there is a contrast being made between "left" vs "right"?

In the past there seemed to be a dominant Socialist, scathing condemnatory response to anyone who dared to say that they were not left wing, accompanied by a territorial claim such as, "This is a Feminist Board!"

Maybe I've been reading the wrong threads but that sort of attitude (minus the "territorial claims") seems to be mainly confined to TRAs now, who I assume are also mostly male.

Of course, TRAs from across the political spectrum are always happy to give selflessly of their time in order to tell us how we ought to be thinking and acting, bless their little cotton socks!

Some people crave confirmation bias, rather than knowledge.

@Thatgirl1981 this was specifically in prison. They were all extremist beforehand.

Mid wits

timpool dubbed them people just Clever enough but not clever enough to realise they have no common sense

and actually the data shows educated people
more likely to get sucked into cults

Yes, I am sure that is true, the truly psychopathic will go where they can best flourish, wherever that is.

There are other things that complicate this sort of analysis. Being educated doesn't necessarily correlate with more intelligence, and when you have a lot of highly educated stupid people, I think they can actually be rather dangerous. Which sounds quite horribly elitist, but it's been my observation.

I also think that temperament does not always correspond to political identification. Many progressives and liberals are actually quite conservative by temperament - to them, that represents a kind of establishment position. And on the other hand you can find conservatives who are actually in many ways rather radical thinkers.

I've got a lot of time for Paul Embery. He was on the Spiked podcast yesterday. On trans towards the end, maybe the last third/quarter.

His assertion that we will win did give me a little boost this morning

At this point their literally quibbling about inflation rates on evey question of the day majority of conservative are not different to labour

be it the bbc
abortion
migration
sex education
free speech
tax
welfare spending
freedom of press
housing
religion
religious tests for public life

My husband is from Belfast I wouldn’t say that the IRA were centerist 😂

sinn feinn and totally TWAW she was also wearing a headscarf the other day to show allyship🤨

Literally no one who is actually conservative believe the Tory’s are right wing

their is no difference between Tobins Elwood and David lammy on any policy 😂

they could be in the same party I think it’s more that labour moved so far left that somone like boris is considered right wing 😂

They did studies years ago about the different traits of terrorists involved in the Troubles. Please forgive my general ignorance NI MNers, it was a long time ago. But essentially the UVF, Red Hand types were very poorly educated, and tended to get involved in extreme religion and politics even in prison. The Provos/IRA ones tended to already be better educated, and in prison tended towards education and more centrist pursuits than the extreme ones. Ditto ANC etc.

The conclusion seemed to be that people who saw themselves as freedom fighters, liberators and fighting because they HAD to were more stable, well-read and intelligent than those who fought to fuck shit up, or because it suited their personality.

I don't suppose the left or right is very different, in that if you are drawn to volent direct action, when it is not required by the situation, you are more likely to be ignorant and psychopathic.

Sex-based rights for women isn't a conservative political stance, it's a progressive one. Regardless of who takes it, for whatever reason.

@Rudderneck "I thought it was interesting what someone said earlier in the thread, that left wing extremism is linked to low language skills. I have never heard that before, and I don't know where that information comes from, but it certainly resonates with my experience. Particularly talking to people who are basically well meaning but seem to get sucked into this type of ideology - I find it is often difficult to have an in depth discussion on the topic because at a certain point, they just don't seem to be able to follow the arguments. And I don't mean they disagree, which is quite different - they don't seem to be able to understand what's being said, and it seems to center around language in a lot of cases."

Interesting you should say that, because as a left-leaning person, my experience has been almost exactly the opposite. My problem is that I currently feel politically homeless because I don't agree with almost any other conservative political stances than the one that focuses on biological reality.

@ThisTimeIts interested in what's wrong with being liberal ? I see liberal as being in favour of same sex marriage, abortion, generally tolerant. I remember liberal lefty being an insult bandied about by the likes of Nigel Farage and his supporters to insult m/c educated types who were anti brexit.

I totally agree that the extremism is a bird with two wings.

My written and spoken language skills are poor. I have a very good understanding though and rarely come across new words to me.

Sure. But it's interesting to look at whether different basic personality traits or other motives tend to lie behind different kinds of extremism.

There's no reason to assume that the same kind of person, or environment, leads to both.

I thought it was interesting what someone said earlier in the thread, that left wing extremism is linked to low language skills. I have never heard that before, and I don't know where that information comes from, but it certainly resonates with my experience. Particularly talking to people who are basically well meaning but seem to get sucked into this type of ideology - I find it is often difficult to have an in depth discussion on the topic because at a certain point, they just don't seem to be able to follow the arguments. And I don't mean they disagree, which is quite different - they don't seem to be able to understand what's being said, and it seems to center around language in a lot of cases.

What got him was the realisation that men with not so lovely intentions might take advantage of the situation

TBF going by a few threads on here there are women who can't get this either - because their sons and husbands are lovely and would Never Do Anything Like That.

Socialist Worker placards are noticeable on many TRA demonstrations, including those that abuse feminists. It is no surprise that the party of Comrade Delta should, inter alia, liken women’s fears about males in their safe spaces to the moral panic around gay men in the 1980s. A party that brushes rape under the carpet was always going to treat women’s concerns and boundaries with contempt, welcome the opportunity to abuse as 'bigots' women who say no, and to deny the reality of predatory male behaviour.

The SWP should of course be contrasted (unfavourably) with other left-wing groups like the Communist Party of Britain, which rejects self-ID and supports women's sex-based rights (they even quote from Mumsnet!).

“According to this principle, individuals with dark personalities — such as high narcissistic and psychopathic traits — are attracted to certain forms of political and social activism which they can use as a vehicle to satisfy their own ego-focused needs instead of actually aiming at social justice and equality.....In particular, certain forms of activism might provide them with opportunities for positive self-presentation and displays of moral superiority, to gain social status, to dominate others, and to engage in social conflicts and aggression to satisfy their need for thrill seeking.”

That pretty much nails it. The dark ego vehicle principle. I'll remember that one.

I think the substance of both should be considered on its merits.
It's not sufficient to judge on the basis of the tribal affiliations of the source.

@ThisTimeIts - quoting an article from the N Y Post about how awful liberals are is on a par with quoting the Morning Star on conservatives. Extremism is the problem, on whichever end of the spectrum.

One possibility that I wonder about sometimes is that there are quite a few lefty men who have in mind that transitioning might be good for them in the future. Even if it's unlikely they'll choose that path, self-interest still plays a part.

Very good point, but I don't think it needs to be even as solid as "having transitioning in mind".

It's a scenario where men know that no matter how unlikely it may be that they end up involved in it, there's only one side they could possibly end up on.

Similar to how men are primed to think about sexual assault allegations - no matter what their own intent is, they are going to be inclined to identify with the man, ie the defendant, and have things like false allegations as a primary concern, rather than securing valid convictions.