Does anyone feel less inclined these days to wear makeup and skirts or dresses due to the focus on femininity as what defines woman?

Some very interesting posts, especially about current teenage fashion.
I was watching a Year 6 end of year show the other day, and it struck me that all the girls playing female roles were wearing heels and strong makeup. It wasn't stage makeup, and I know this because none of the boys had makeup. The girls playing male or non/gendered roles also had makeup. It's the heels that jumped out at me, like it's a signifier for adult woman.
To me, it felt a little uncomfortable to watch all these 11 year olds tottering around in heels, especially when I know their own mums live in trainers.

Interestingly, I started a style & beauty thread here about my trip to the barbers and I got quite few insults, along the lines of "I don't want to look like a man".

I don't give a fuck but I was surprised at how many women define themselves by a self-perceived notion of femininity.

I have a strong sense of what I like and enjoy wearing. I am either moving around like a giant bouncy ball or lounging on the sofa, so movement and comfort is key.

I have always loathed formal wear and restrictive clothing.

I like 100% cotton, big trainers and colourful sweatshirts with a pair of blue jeans.

I wear tinted moisturiser, mascara and blusher. I have sallow skin and people always ask if I'm ill without it.

I am genuinely happy with myself and enjoy 'dressing up' every day. I don't need anyone to tell me I look confident and happy in my own skin.

Yes, I see a growing number of young women with cropped hair and a definite androgynous look. They're not adopting trans identities, just going with the fashion zeitgeist which is for a 'non binary'/androgynous look.

it is certainly more healthy, and far less self absorbed than going with an. 'identity'.

Thanks for this comment @TheirEminence

I have also observed subtle changes in teenage fashion that to me seem to be a bit of a push-back against the ultra-feminine, artificial look - wide cargo pants, little make-up, crop tops, showing off natural female body shapes that are extremely hard to emulate by those who are not female. Imagine Eddie Izzard in brown cargo pants and a simple white cotton crop top and you will know what I mean.

I've noticed, without thinking about it much, a later teens through to perhaps mid twenties look by many out and about that is covering yet revealing in the sense that there is no doubt about sex.

No! I always wear skirts ( preference just below the knee) - and whatever else I like, think suits me and that I find comfortable. Once my feet have been liberated in early May, they do not go back into shoes, socks or tights until October. Fit flops all the way.I'm not big on make-up; Just a bit of mascara, and if i go to an event or function - some eye-liner too.

I think teenagers are very aware of this, both ways round. When my daughter had her hair cropped really short, she was totally unprepared for being asked daily by kids at school if she was now ‘trans’.

Without being nasty ( hopefully), I do think you are over estimating the effect that the trans issue has on the vast majority of women. I only really regularly come across this issue on MN and the occasional news story.
I think I would blame the lockdown for people dressing less formally. Many people never got back into the habit, myself included.

Well I am fairly short so wearing a heel does actually make me feel good and a decent wedge heel is comfortable. I cannot walk in flats at all. When at home I am barefoot but outside of the home I would always have a heel of some description on as I feel less frumpy with the extra height.

I do not follow celebrities and have no social media bar here and fb and only follow friends on there so not into celebs or 'influencers'. I wear what I feel nice in it really is that simple. Today I have a 2inch heel on and about to flounce off to the empty office and totter around alone all day lol

But yeah it hasn’t really affected me in terms of how I present because for me a woman is a biological fact, I don’t feel like being feminine or not affects my womanhood. I just am.

I don’t really wear skirts, the odd dress but no generally I’m still wearing trousers and tops etc, have done for decades and I’m happy and comfortable, I dress for practically, I’m not stylish either. However you will have to take my eyebrow pencil out of my cold dead hands.

No I haven't because what I wear doesn't define who I am.

When I say thinking about it

That including a thinking about why certain outfits "make you feel good"

Because logically heels don't make you feel good - they physically damage you - and usually our bodies would give out pain signals on damage - so it must just be in your mind that you feel good about sone things. matching a mental image of a successful women/ lauded celebrities ?

Apologies, it was @Neverinamonthofsundays

Nope I just wear what I want, I would say the emergence of casual and comfy clothes and less make up and stuff is probably to do with lockdown rather than anything else.

Unless I'm dressed for camping, I always dress feminine in dresses or feminine tops with jeans. I never wear make up. I can't be bothered with having to take it off. My hair is a bit below shoulder length but not styled in any special way.

Oddly enough it has made me think about the messages people receive when they see how I present myself

I am not a dresses and make up person but I do wear lots of Seasalt which has lots of colour and patterns that men don't get to wear.

And my thoughts were well people have always been stupid making assumptions about me and changing how I dress wouldn't affect that

But also its sad men can't wear such things if they would like to , and I do think many would wear more pattern and colour if they felt comfortable rather pushing boundaries with it

Correct it was me and it is a personal thing so I do not care what others wear or whatever I only care about what I wear and how I look and regardless of others I intend to continue looking the way I do as it makes me feel good about myself the same as we all dress hopefully for ourselves and to feel good about ourselves be it in heels or trainers or what not.

I will be working alone today and I still have showered and put on makeup and done my hair and have a nice outfit picked out. I may not see anyone at all today bar my kids but it makes me feel nice to look this way.

I have also observed subtle changes in teenage fashion that to me seem to be a bit of a push-back against the ultra-feminine, artificial look - wide cargo pants, little make-up, crop tops, showing off natural female body shapes that are extremely hard to emulate by those who are not female. Imagine Eddie Izzard in brown cargo pants and a simple white cotton crop top and you will know what I mean.
Interesting. I've noticed that particular fashion among female teens but it didn't occurred to me until you mentioned it, that it would look very different on a male body.
Wrt the OP, no, I haven't changed. I don't wear much makeup but I do wear a lot of dresses, but that's mostly a body shape thing. I'm fairly round in the middle and it's more comfortable to wear a dress than try find trousers that fit!
I don't want to change that. Wearing a dress isn't what makes me a woman. I don't particularly care if men wore dresses either. Perhaps more should. They can be comfortable.
It's male people putting on dresses and claiming that's a sign they're really a woman that I have a problem with. Women are female people, not people who wear dresses.

I think you have mixed me with some one else. I didn’t say anything about 'letting myself go‘

Dress/tracksuit/sack - what everyone one is wearing it’s usually really obvious who is a man and who is a woman.

I understand where you are coming from, OP, and when I first became aware of gender identity ideology and its assumptions about femininity, I also reassessed my personal style, perhaps, in a way, to show that clothing and make-up are superficial and irrelevant to what we are.

However, over the years, I have turned this around a bit because people around us do react to how we dress, and it gives us an opportunity to learn something about them and to influence how we are perceived. It’s not about you, it’s about the others. Dressing well and dressing to convey subtle messages is a real skill and if you are good at it, why not use it to your advantage?

It’s interesting to me how TRAs often comment negatively on women who dress in what they regard as ‘unfeminine’ ways. (Example: Munroe Bergdorf’s comment on ‘hairy lesbians’ IIRC.) Somebody also once said that one of the reasons why Posie Parker gets them so angry is her feminine personal style which comes across as effortless.

I have also observed subtle changes in teenage fashion that to me seem to be a bit of a push-back against the ultra-feminine, artificial look - wide cargo pants, little make-up, crop tops, showing off natural female body shapes that are extremely hard to emulate by those who are not female. Imagine Eddie Izzard in brown cargo pants and a simple white cotton crop top and you will know what I mean.

I haven't worn make up for years, though I do wear skirts and dresses. I tend to ask myself whether the average man would feel the need to do whatever it is or equivalent, and if the answer's no and there's no different biological reason that I'd do it as a woman then it's probably not going to be something I'd do. I can't be bothered with the faff or the expense and I don't like the feeling that I don't look acceptable as I am without enhancement. I do get rid of my chin hairs though .

Drag queens just highlight how ridiculous and humiliating the trappings of femininity are. Yes they are more exaggerated in drag, but there is no male equivalent - no male beauty or fashion trends which could be exaggerated and used to make a caricature of to mock and submit men, from which men would then draw their own fashion inspiration in a reciprocal relationship, as women do.

So you're not unreasonable to notice that and be uncomfortable with it.

@OctogenarianDecathlete Do you get 'sir'? I've had it a few times recently, short hair but obviously female.

• And the idea of "letting myself go" would mean not being put together in a way men would find unattractive.

Correction!