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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Lucy Spraggan 'When I was a boy'

132 replies

NancyDrawed · 10/07/2023 08:57

A post promoting Lucy Spraggan's book appeared in my Facebook feed and I found it really interesting that she chose to post the following:

There’s a chapter in my book called ‘When I Was a Little Boy’ which talks about, well, when I was a little boy.
I was born biologically female but from a young age I chose to be called Max and lived - completely authentically - as a boy.
I talk about in all the ways that my family nurtured my identity and in all the ways that freedom to be myself, freedom to be Max, helped me to grow.
It was only recently that I discovered how much Max is still a part of me and I talk about that too.
Anyway, I wanted you to meet Max. So here’s some pics of me then

I wonder whether she will go all out and say she is glad, as a happy adult lesbian, that her family let her just work it all out for herself.

One of the comments:

'I love this. However, in todays society, Lucy’s parents would have been encouraged to give her hormones and other drugs to change her body from female to male which DOES have irreparable side effects. I agree with allowing children to be who they feel comfortable being, I don’t agree with giving them drugs and medication to make a life changing decision that they just aren’t equipped to make at such a young age. I too was “all boy” when I was younger but thank god I wasn’t given the opportunity to change my gender, I love being a woman and back then I had no concept of what being a man OR woman meant in the world. I just wanted to play football, and only boys were allowed to do that. Hence why I cut my hair short and tried to pass myself off as a boy for years as a kid. I had no concept though of what I was doing. Nature took its course and thank god it did, I love being a woman and I love all my womanly parts. Children need to be supported in whatever they want to do, but making life changing decisions is something they should decide as an adult.'

Lucy Spraggan 'When I was a boy'
OP posts:
WildUnchartedWaters · 17/07/2023 14:40

lieselotte · 17/07/2023 14:38

Why have you reported the comments? It is not unreasonable to comment on the fact that she has donated to Mermaids, which is one of the most damaging charities around. The fact that she was raped isn't really material to that!

Because I wanted to.
Hope that's okay with you.

lieselotte · 17/07/2023 14:38

Why have you reported the comments? It is not unreasonable to comment on the fact that she has donated to Mermaids, which is one of the most damaging charities around. The fact that she was raped isn't really material to that!

NancyDrawed · 17/07/2023 14:37

WildUnchartedWaters · 17/07/2023 14:33

I apologise to you.

Apology accepted.

OP posts:
WildUnchartedWaters · 17/07/2023 14:33

NancyDrawed · 17/07/2023 14:32

WildUnchartedWaters

Thank you for clarifying what you meant

I apologise to you.

NancyDrawed · 17/07/2023 14:32

WildUnchartedWaters

Thank you for clarifying what you meant

OP posts:
WildUnchartedWaters · 17/07/2023 14:32

BezMills · 17/07/2023 14:28

"This entire thread based on a rape victim (which literally came out yesterday) is in awful, awful taste."

Those words didn't need to be clearer. They needed to be completely different words.

We've been talking about Lucy, mainly in glowing terms, and may well continue to do so. I wouldn't have a bad word to say about her, even if I don't agree with everything she might say or do.

I accept that.

I dont think it has been glowing terms. Criticism of her donating to mermaids?

I love Lucy so I'm maybe biased but shes spoken out publicly about not only her assault but her mental health, her alcoholism..

I think its absolutely brutal to criticise her for a charity donation just because people dont like the charity.

I accept I should have been clearer in my wording but I still think the thread is in poor taste.

BezMills · 17/07/2023 14:28

"This entire thread based on a rape victim (which literally came out yesterday) is in awful, awful taste."

Those words didn't need to be clearer. They needed to be completely different words.

We've been talking about Lucy, mainly in glowing terms, and may well continue to do so. I wouldn't have a bad word to say about her, even if I don't agree with everything she might say or do.

WildUnchartedWaters · 17/07/2023 14:25

NancyDrawed · 17/07/2023 14:24

I never said she did! Fair play to her for being and doing as she pleases.

And please note that I started this thread on July 10th regarding Lucy's book chapter about 'when she was a little boy'. I had no idea that she had been raped during her time on the x-factor. I hope she had and has support to deal with the aftermath of such an attack.

But to imply that I started this thread on the back of an article that came out a week later in order to attack a rape victim is rather unpleasant.

No, sorry I didnt mean you. I should have been clearer.

I meant the comments, which I have reported. Not you.

NancyDrawed · 17/07/2023 14:24

WildUnchartedWaters · 17/07/2023 14:13

She doesnr owe you or anyone else anything. She is who she is and does as she chooses.

This entire thread based on a rape victim (which literally came out yesterday) is in awful, awful taste.

I never said she did! Fair play to her for being and doing as she pleases.

And please note that I started this thread on July 10th regarding Lucy's book chapter about 'when she was a little boy'. I had no idea that she had been raped during her time on the x-factor. I hope she had and has support to deal with the aftermath of such an attack.

But to imply that I started this thread on the back of an article that came out a week later in order to attack a rape victim is rather unpleasant.

OP posts:
WildUnchartedWaters · 17/07/2023 14:13

NancyDrawed · 17/07/2023 11:45

I was hopeful from the facebook snippet that she was a sort of opposite role model to Ellen/Elliot Page for young lesbians.

Clearly not if she was on the TRA side in Birmingham and donates to the very organisation that would have encouraged her to not grow up in a healthy female body.

She doesnr owe you or anyone else anything. She is who she is and does as she chooses.

This entire thread based on a rape victim (which literally came out yesterday) is in awful, awful taste.

WildUnchartedWaters · 17/07/2023 14:05

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Clymene · 17/07/2023 14:02

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WildUnchartedWaters · 17/07/2023 13:53

I adore Lucy. Such a great model to young people.

I'm also appalled that her assault was swept under the carpet at the time, and she "left the show". At the time it was portrayed that she just wanted to sing her own music. Good to see Simon is now supporting this, but I think that's appalling.

WildUnchartedWaters · 17/07/2023 13:51

Clymene · 17/07/2023 11:39

Why do people always preface asinine statements with 'I'm as gender critical as they come'?

Funding an organisation which is so harmful to children is not a neutral act.

I must have misread, I thought you were criticising a teenage rape victim for donating money to a charity of choosing

Clymene · 17/07/2023 12:52

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Fukuraptor · 17/07/2023 12:50

It sounds as if she was social transitioned at school though. Just because she accepted reality at puberty and got out unscathed doesn't mean it was a great approach.

MrsCarson · 17/07/2023 12:39

I like how her family allowed her to work it out and didn't push for full on transition as a child. Pity more parents aren't guided to do things this way. Seems a kids only has to sniff at maybe being trans and they all fall over themselves to medicate and operate.

Tryingmuchharder · 17/07/2023 12:28

In some families she would have been affirmation and taken to the doctor for help to become a real boy, school would be told to use Max and woe betide anyone who misgendered him or used the wrong pronoun - it's literal genocide don't you know.

Seems lots of children struggle with identity and work though it and many become gay or lesbian later not pretend that a person can change sex and ignore facts.

BezMills · 17/07/2023 12:24

Lucy is young yet, and might change her opinion in the fullness of time, that's up to her. Shirley Manson from Garbage is someone else who I admire a lot, for very similar reasons I admire Lucy. They are both coming from a perspective of inclusivity and kindness, and I respect that. We don't agree on everything, of course we don't. So be it. I still think both of those women are absolute legends.

TheTERFnextDoor · 17/07/2023 12:19

The newer article is about Spraggan suffering a horrendous assault. I don't think it's right to comment on how she spends the money she makes from such interviews.

EmpressaurusOfCats · 17/07/2023 11:59

Clymene · 17/07/2023 11:39

Why do people always preface asinine statements with 'I'm as gender critical as they come'?

Funding an organisation which is so harmful to children is not a neutral act.

I think I’ve only ever seen ‘I’m as gender critical as they come’ followed by a ‘but…’. It’s like ‘I’m not being funny but….’

MavisMcMinty · 17/07/2023 11:56

Particularly because her dysphoria was cured by puberty, as are the majority of cases.

LizzieSiddal · 17/07/2023 11:50

I can’t understand why, after the childhood experiences she had, she would think medicating young children is a good idea!

I also feel so sorry for her and hope telling her story helps her come to terms with the assault she suffered.

NancyDrawed · 17/07/2023 11:45

I was hopeful from the facebook snippet that she was a sort of opposite role model to Ellen/Elliot Page for young lesbians.

Clearly not if she was on the TRA side in Birmingham and donates to the very organisation that would have encouraged her to not grow up in a healthy female body.

OP posts:
Clymene · 17/07/2023 11:39

Why do people always preface asinine statements with 'I'm as gender critical as they come'?

Funding an organisation which is so harmful to children is not a neutral act.

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