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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'Do you currently live in the gender you were given at birth?'

141 replies

Littlesprouts · 08/07/2023 08:04

Saw an interesting vacancy with a big city council so had a nose at the application form.

A very muddled EDI section led to this word salad of an attempt to establish who might be doing the applying. The drop down options are completely baffling. Surely there has to be an easier way? It's put me right off.

'Do you currently live in the gender you were given at birth?'
'Do you currently live in the gender you were given at birth?'
OP posts:
DuesToTheDirt · 09/07/2023 10:51

pinklama · 08/07/2023 13:13

I do live in the female gender but not as my mother had hoped. I don't wear frilly shirts, high heels, lots of make up and giggle a lot.

Funny how you never see trans women in jeans, t-shirts and no make up.

Well then you wouldn't know they were "women", would you... Presumably they would still feel like women as it's all in the brain apparently, but it seems that's not enough and they need acknowledgement from other people that they are women.

KPops22 · 09/07/2023 10:36

Does the gender you live in come with a bonus hole? Is that something like a utility room?

JanesLittleGirl · 09/07/2023 10:34

NotBadConsidering · 08/07/2023 22:50

Was it a cardboard box?

I do believe it was.

LoobiJee · 09/07/2023 09:17

swallowedAfly · 09/07/2023 08:46

Do people really not see this is what women are saying? Do they really believe women are saying that the only thing that matters about us as humans is our biology?

I can't believe that but the alternative is that all these people really are deliberately, intentionally, consistently twisting the words of women in service to an agenda to prevent us from being able to assert and maintain our boundaries and those of children. Including other women. And that is a pretty dark alternative. Way darker than worrying about whether the human IQ is tanking or the world's gone mad.

“I can't believe that but the alternative is that all these people really are deliberately, intentionally, consistently twisting the words of women in service to an agenda to prevent us from being able to assert and maintain our boundaries and those of children. Including other women. And that is a pretty dark alternative. Way darker than worrying about whether the human IQ is tanking or the world's gone mad.”

It’s part of a playbook, and its purpose is to discredit women who point out that only female humans (who’ve reached adulthood) can be women and only female humans (who are still children) can be girls. The In Bad Faith posters do this by reinterpreting and misrepresenting what women are saying when women say that it’s being female which makes a woman a woman. They take “only women and girls can become pregnant” for example and reinterpret / misrepresent that as “the only reason women exist, and the only thing women should be permitted to do is become pregnant”. Only a short step from that misrepresentation to accusing women who don’t tell lies about biology of being religious extremists/ far right / rolling back women’s rights etc.

AlisonDonut · 09/07/2023 08:54

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 09/07/2023 01:25

so I don't think woman essence is actually a thing
Ok, do you then, why can you not understand for others it is different though?
I'm.not just what my body does, .i find it more harmful to reduce women to their biology and body parts

Well, you are wrong.

We class humans as male or female because on average, the developments that make males male, also increase the risks to women.

And where itatters, it really matters.

Wear what you want, but males are a risk to females. And so we have safeguards and mitigations to try and reduce the risk.

Until males found a new and improved way of getting round them.

No male who isn't a risk to women is trying to get into female spaces.

RudsyFarmer · 09/07/2023 08:47

That sounds like an ideal question to do a strike through and a N/A.

swallowedAfly · 09/07/2023 08:46

Do people really not see this is what women are saying? Do they really believe women are saying that the only thing that matters about us as humans is our biology?

I can't believe that but the alternative is that all these people really are deliberately, intentionally, consistently twisting the words of women in service to an agenda to prevent us from being able to assert and maintain our boundaries and those of children. Including other women. And that is a pretty dark alternative. Way darker than worrying about whether the human IQ is tanking or the world's gone mad.

swallowedAfly · 09/07/2023 08:41

Of course your body parts and functions aren't all you are as a human being but they are the only reason you are female and classified as a woman. On top of that we have personalities, temperaments, experiences, different primary and secondary socialisation, career experiences, cultures, tastes in art, politics etc that make us whole human beings.

Whether we are men or women very much is just biology and that biology and the potential experiences it endows us with is the only thing that all women across time and space have in common.

This doesn't reduce YOU, a person, to your body parts or functions. It is the reality of your sex not your whole self.

PurpleGreenandWhiteAreTheNewPrimaryColours · 09/07/2023 05:14

Littlesprouts · 08/07/2023 08:20

'Given at birth' is a disturbing development. Assigned getting a bit old hat was it?

What if you were given a gender not at birth, but at a 'gender reveal' party in utero.
And how very dare your parents assume what your innate special gender identity was.

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 09/07/2023 02:09

I don't have to agree with them that having their hair cut short, sporting facial hair, mowing the grass and not wearing makeup, dresses, skirts, high heels or handbags, makes them a man. Not least because all those things are true of me too and they don't make me any less female.
I agree there too, facial hair has nothing to do with femininity or masculinity Women can have facial hair too.
Likewise,length of hair or whether you like handbags or not doesn't refer to femininity

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/07/2023 01:49

I'm.not just what my body does, .i find it more harmful to reduce women to their biology and body parts

In which case, you'll be able to articulate what being a woman feels like inside that isn't anything to do with biology. Otherwise it just sounds nonsensical 🤷‍♀️

Fukuraptor · 09/07/2023 01:47

Completely agree, but why should I deny trans men exist as a result?

I don't believe in God. Do you think this means that I don't believe Christians, Muslims, Jews and other monotheists exist? 🤔

I accept that there are some women who would rather for various reasons, be perceived as men. I don't have to agree with them that having their hair cut short, sporting facial hair, mowing the grass and not wearing makeup, dresses, skirts, high heels or handbags, makes them a man. Not least because all those things are true of me too and they don't make me any less female.

Disagreeing with people about beliefs they hold sincerely doesn't mean that I think they don't exist or that they shouldn't have the right to hold their beliefs. I am not going to walk into their churches/synagogues/mosques and shout that God doesn't exist.

But equally, I'm not going to confess my sins to a priest, fast for Yom Kippur or pray facing Mecca to make religious people feel validated.

I do not need to partake in other people's religions. People who force their religious beliefs upon others are insecure and illiberal extremists.

I can still respect people who sincerely believe things I don't. We can disagree.

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 09/07/2023 01:25

so I don't think woman essence is actually a thing
Ok, do you then, why can you not understand for others it is different though?
I'm.not just what my body does, .i find it more harmful to reduce women to their biology and body parts

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/07/2023 01:22

I do too but there's more to it for me, it's not just what my body does or doesn't do.

It's a factor, but that's not all it is. I know from experience you just don't or can't understand though.

It's not just my inability to understand Bodger, it's that you've never been able to articulate it, and nor has anyone else, so I don't think woman essence is actually a thing.

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 09/07/2023 01:16

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/07/2023 01:12

I do feel female, because I know what sex I am. That's the only feeling I have about it. How do you feel female?

We clearly differ then, as you only feel female due to the body you have.
I do too but there's more to it for me, it's not just what my body does or doesn't do.
It's a factor, but that's not all it is. I know from experience you just don't or can't understand though.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/07/2023 01:13

Completely agree, but why should I deny trans men exist as a result?

Because they're not actually men? Hence their female bodies and female bodily functions. But you do you, I'm not telling you what to do?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/07/2023 01:12

I do feel female, because I know what sex I am. That's the only feeling I have about it. How do you feel female?

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 09/07/2023 01:09

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/07/2023 01:06

Not all women and girls bleed every month. Only women and girls bleed every month.

Completely agree, but why should I deny trans men exist as a result?

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 09/07/2023 01:08

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/07/2023 00:58

Bodger has said before that she believes she has a "woman identity" that strangely she can't define.

Can you define why you don't identify with, why you don't feel female?

OhcantthInkofaname · 09/07/2023 01:06

O M G. I wasn't assigned a gender at birth. I have two XX chromosomes which means I am female. That was decided when the X sperm met the X ova in my mother's body.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/07/2023 01:06

Not all women and girls bleed every month. Only women and girls bleed every month.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/07/2023 01:05

What else is there to being a woman other than being a member of the female sex?

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 09/07/2023 01:04

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/07/2023 00:59

Not believing in a woman essence doesn't "reduce us to body parts"

No, but thinking that is all there is to being a woman kind of does.
I'm.a woman not just because I bleed every month, it's not just stuff like that for me.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/07/2023 01:01

I have in common with all women that we are female and there are many commonalities. I have nothing in common with males that believe themselves to be women.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/07/2023 01:00

I am female. It doesn't presuppose anything at all about me other than that I was born into the female sex.

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