Radio 4. Right now. Is freaking me out.

I’m pretty sure I didn’t

no, of course they aren’t. Being a woman is a matter of biology. If you think it’s a matter of something else, it’s on you to tell us what.

Hey, I thought we weren’t going for ad hominem attacks?

Come on, now. You told me you’re better than that.

As I’ve said, you do what you like. But don’t take the provision away from those who
understand the need for it. It’s not hard.

And those who have transitioned? Are they now women? Of course not, in your world. As I said, we aren’t going to agree so I think I’ll crack on with my day.

Service providers are bound by the EA 2010. Failure to provide single sex services might, depending on circumstances, amount to indirect sex discrimination.
i always find it really funny how the guardian readers suddenly go all “private companies can do what they like” on this stuff. They can’t. EQUALITY ACT EXISTS NUMBSKULLS. Passed by a labour government.

Until then, each person can decide what they want to do with regards changing and showering.
The girls have decided they want to keep their space but unfortunately one male is prioritised over 20 females. How is this democracy? The TW could easily use the other changing room but doesn't want to. How is this fair? What message does it send to our girls that their discomfort is not as important as what ONE male wants? Out of interest, would you be comfortable showering with a male?

I’m not. But if we’re having a vote, my vote is as valid as yours. Or are only people who agree with you allowed to vote? That doesn’t seem very fair

under a rock for the last three years or just a guardian reader?
amounts to the same thing I guess

I think it’s fine for the sports club to decide their own rules. If they have decided to be inclusive, you can decide whether to campaign for change, in whatever form, or to find somewhere that assigns changing rooms according to biological sex.

As for the predator thing - don’t be silly. You know that you are suggesting this TW is someone to suspect.

This can only be posted on almost total ignorance of the controversy within the medical profession as to the appropriate treatment of minors claiming gender distress, the clear co-morbidity within this population with other problems (notably ASD, worry about sexuality, and childhood trauma) and the emerging trend, in Europe at least, away from intervention, recognising the lack of evidence base to support it.
I can’t take it seriously, I’m sorry.

Quite.

like I said, campaign for cubicles. Until then, each person can decide what they want to do with regards changing and showering.

So any man should be able to use any female space?

Decide for you. Don’t do away with single sex for me. I don’t consent.

Actually on any level if you were to ask are you ok with males being here and this being mixed sex I’d be surprised if the vote was a yes anywhere. In refuges, prisons, changing rooms, sports I’d say it would be a no.

It is currently the case that males have access because they are prioritised over women and women are secondary to a tiny minority.

Correct on both counts.

And by the way - of course trans women are not women. That’s the point of being trans. Implicit in that status is you not being the sex you wish to “transition” to.

I’m confused. I thought you mean ‘say we campaign for cubicles’ as in ‘say we get cubicles, what then?’

like I said, campaign for cubicles. Until then, each person can decide what they want to do with regards changing and showering.

i am not sure you, or anyone else, should be arrogating to yourself the right to dispense with long standing social rules which provide for single sex spaces because you do not feel the need for them.
leave them for those that do.

We live in a democracy and whatever the majority decides, I’m ok with.
So, in my real life example, you're happy with the majority (the girls) having their own change room?

its very clear you don’t believe TW are W and you are of the ‘it’s a man in a dress’ group. I don’t share these beliefs. Some of us females are happy to share.

We aren’t ever going to agree and that’s ok. We live in a democracy and whatever the majority decides, I’m ok with.

That was a reply to @Bingbangbongbash btw! And I didn't say anything about the TW being a predator. Strange that you should mention that! So, to be clear, you think that it is fine for all the women to not have anywhere to change and this is less important than the TW to change in the female changing rooms? I'm sorry but I just can't see why the TW couldn't change elsewhere??

Eh? There are no cubicles. That's the point. Why do you think the TW should be able to change with the girls but what the gorls want doesn't matter? They don't want to change with anyone with a penis. They find it embarrassing. I don't blame them.

There may be a small amount of females possibly but I doubt women in professional sports would vote with you.

Actually on any level if you were to ask are you ok with males being here and this being mixed sex I’d be surprised if the vote was a yes anywhere. In refuges, prisons, changing rooms, sports I’d say it would be a no.

It is currently the case that males have access because they are prioritised over women and women are secondary to a tiny minority.

Female only spaces are for females. We’re allowed to have our own things, without having to worry whether that upsets a male. Or we should be. There is no reason why what the TW thinks should be our problem.

Why would the TW using a cubicle in the women’s changing room disadvantage the girls? Thing is, j think we’re coming at this from different angles. I don’t inherently think that having a penis makes you a predator, whether or not you want to live as a man or a woman. So I don’t have an issue with mixed spaces (as long as they offer individual privacy). You feel differently, and so see things with more suspicion.

I think it’s pretty unfair to say ‘who gives a fuck what the girls think’ - of course I care, but I also care what the TW wants. Everyone deserves to live their lives as they want to, with respect and tolerance.

And the women, like me, who don’t agree with you? How are we counted? Are all women and men polled? Or just current users? How often do you repeat the vote to take into account new users?