Radio 4. Right now. Is freaking me out.

I'm sure you know how to hide a thread. Click on the arrow.

Another anti trans thread on aibu..

Stick to the feminism board.

It's really interesting, how professional types with overinflated opinions of themselves and their progressiveness, are willing to throw women and children under the bus because they listened to some male sob stories a couple of times. Any person who has had dealings with a clinical narcissist can recognise many of these as DARVO and manipulative emotional blackmail.

Try for once listening to some of the stories of the women and children affected by society's complete blindness on this issue. Not much compassion for them.

That patient that urinated on the floor during an examination would appear to have either a) a fetish
or b) a mental health issue or
c) exhibiting bad behaviour for attention

I knew a female Podiatrist who had a patient undo his trousers and tell her he had "problems with his ball sack and could she help? "He was removed from the surgery pronto and referred to a male Podiatrist.

I know of female Physios who have had young male patients start to 'handle themselves'/expose themselves during treatment. They got short shrift and were sent to a male Physio next time.

Healthcare professionals shouldn't have to tell adults what appropriate behaviour is.
If the patient doesn't know, then they need to be Sectioned under the Mental Health Act (1983) for their own protection. In the case of the patient referred to, it would be for their own protection because if they go around peeing in inappropriate places someone, somewhere will eventually smack them in the mouth.

Why shouldn't that person be in the changing room? Is it because you've decided they aren't "genuine"?

Because I think ‘gaze’ comes from identity more than sex.

So does that mean you think all the cross dressing males who claim to identify as women who've sexually assaulted women, or post disgusting pornified stuff about women on social media, aren't "genuinely trans"?

It’s really weird how much you seem to be blaming me for what’s happening to your club.
Of course I don't blame you personally but you don't seem to grasp that it is the reification of gender identity over sex that you believe in which is directly responsible for the situation in the club. It is the willful refusal to join the dots which is exasperating. If you really believe that gender identity is paramount then you should have no problem with a 50 year old male showering with girls - and yet you continue with your incoherent argument and pretend it's a reasonable position. There is no middle ground here I'm afraid.

There’s a very important person not being considered here in all these ‘desires’ and wants. The welfare of the baby should be paramount. Males taking off label drugs and feeding the resultant liquid to babies is not ‘best for baby’. At worst it will actively harm the baby. At best, the effect is not known.

Females taking cross sex hormones and then getting pregnant is not best for baby. Some tm have accidentally become pregnant while actually on testosterone. We already known that this is not healthy for the baby.

Do we think that all maternity advice will now be ‘do what you like, take whichever drugs you like, eat/drink what you like’? If not, why is a particular group being facilitated to do that and not lectured and shamed for their actions that are very likely to lead to long term harm for the baby?

What about the women in the changing room who don’t think this.

You mentioned trauma earlier. Why does male trauma override female trauma for you?

I believe social conditioning and gender identity are paramount
So presumably over 45 years of being socially-confitioned as a man and having a male gender identity is more important to bear in mind than a year of self-identifying as a woman? Finally we agree on something!

No, I can’t. And I’ve already said I don’t think this person should be in the changing room. Why won’t you listen to what I’m saying? It’s really weird how much you seem to be blaming me for what’s happening to your club.

Because I think ‘gaze’ comes from identity more than sex. I don’t think sex is completely irrelevant, but I believe social conditioning and gender identity are paramount

Fringe ideological belief, I should say.

But I don’t see it as a male gaze if it is a ‘genuine’ TW for want of a better phrase.
So can you explain what actually happened between last year when said TW defined as male and now? And how are the girls meant to perceive this change?

Yes, it's clear that your ideological belief makes you handwave away any damage to anyone else.

There was no infant, so no problem there.

i do understand someone who identifies as a woman wanting to lactate more than I understand someone who identifies as a man wanting to give birth. It seems more logical.

again, I come from a different take - I believe in the concept of transgender. You don’t. That’s ok. Different strokes.

Since we all agree you can’t change sex why isn’t it the male gaze?

As pp said, you just put the feelings of these males over the feelings of women, for whatever reason. It's not an unusual position to take. But do own it.

By a male in a female space

Inappropriately violated

But I don’t see it as a male gaze if it is a ‘genuine’ TW for want of a better phrase.

What makes one male "genuine" and another not? Why is what they think about themselves anything to do with me when I feel humiliated and have my boundaries by a male inappropriately in a female space?

Ok, cool. Your OH like la being patronised. Is it a fetish?

I understand that position completely. But I don’t see it as a male gaze if it is a ‘genuine’ TW for want of a better phrase. So our positions will never align.

"I appreciate your measured tone, but the idea that you ‘eye roll’ at your OH is a little patronising, no?"

So @bingbangboshbash, you appreciate my measured tone so much you have to accuse me of being patronising? It's not difficult to spot why posters are responding to you in the way they are 🤔.

And, FYI, my OH loves it when I eyeroll at him. And he's an EX-Guardian reader. Like many others who find doing the zeitgeist thing so wearing.

Your example, @Fiftyisthenewsixty absolutely demonstrates the "safety" fallacy, and how most of the demands of modern and radical trans movement are about the demand for validation and the forcing of their issues (their identity beliefs, mental health crisis, fetish or whatever it may be) on everyone around them, but in particular, the people they want to be - females. This TW has presumably claimed to not be safe using the men's changing rooms. So has been allowed to use the women's. The young women/girls have, in turn, decided that they are no longer safe (by which I mean both physically and emotionally in terms of their dignity and privacy). They have chosen to change elsewhere. I presume they haven't complained or been mean, just absented themselves quietly from the communal changing area. TW is now kicking up a fuss, but why? He's got what he wanted, his "safety". But that's not what he really wanted. He wanted validation from women for his female identity. He wanted to enact whatever fantasy he plays out in his head about what goes on in female changing rooms. And, more worryingly, perhaps he wanted to get his thrills from being in the presence of undressed females. And somehow, he and his supporters believe these young women have no right NOT to be involved in his wants. And they have been winning too, because these girls have been shamed into going along with it, and in some cases, threatened with being expelled from their sport. Riley Gains's testimony on these issues (vis a vis Will/Lia Thomas) are a case in point.