Radio 4. Right now. Is freaking me out.

“If the number of people increasingly abandon it it’ll be like The Guardian

Only the very committed with bother

A big shame they can’t self reflect on what’s happening before it’s too late”

This is fallacious on many levels:

1. it suggests the Guardian is struggling with loss of readership, which is incorrect (see my earlier post for numbers, but the top line is that it’s the second most widely read newspaper)
2. Delve deeper into the audience of the Guardian and it’s largely made up of AB (professionals) and a fairly wide spread of ages including young people - ie just what advertisers want

Your later post suggests somehow Times Radio is a worrying development, snatching R4 listeners in droves. Again, fallacious. It’s entire weekly listenership is 500k, which is a lot less than the 5 million people who tune into just one R4 show (Today).

And BBC Sounds recorded 1.48 BILLION listens last year. So again, it’s fallacious to suggest the Times Radio is anything other than a squashed fly on the windscreen of the BBC juggernaut. HTH

TBH, the people saying ‘we don’t know what it does to the body’ sound a little like the antivaxxers who were scared of the long term effects of the CV-19 vaccinations.
This is an utterly ridiculous analysis. We know how vaccines work. Covid was still relatively new but there was such a wealth of information on coronoviruses and vaccines in general, that we had a good idea of what the risks are.
As far as I am aware, there are zero studies on the effects of testosterone intake by the mother on fetuses. And, not just because such a study would never make it past an ethics committee. We do know that testosterone can have such a strong effect, that it is a controlled substance.
It's perfectly reasonable to have concerns about a substance with known effects to be used without appropriate medical oversight and without any studies showing us how the child would be affected.

Yep.

Very, very homophobic.

I think wish we could just be allowed to say that TW are TW, TM are TM and they have the right to exist without harassment or denigration.

But that is a lie.

I wish we could say that TW are MEN, TM are WOMEN, and they have a right to exist without harassment and denigration.

Because that is the truth.

But you know who else has a right to exist without harassment and denigration? WOMEN and MEN. ALL of us - straight, gay or bi, we ALL have a right to live our lives in a way that we are comfortable with, as long as it doesn't damage other people.

Pretending that people can change sex is wrong - it does not happen, cannot happen and never will happen. To pretend otherwise, and in particular to allow self-ID without any evidence of dysphoria is to make women and children very vulnerable. It is misogynistic and also deeply homophobic.

"Woman" isn't a costume to be worn. Sexual attraction is sexual attraction - not "genderal" attraction. But because of this "be kind", "TW are W" rubbish, predatory men are taking advantage of the opportunity to enter female-only spaces unchallenged, and gay people of both sexes are being vilified and expelled from their own organisations.

Just turn it off then and listen to something else, it’s not hard

It wasn’t inaccurate. I quoted figures. They are correct.

But you’re both agreeing that it should be not at the expense of others.

Which is where women sex based rights come in.

Great post. Really adds something to the debate. Do you learn that level of insight from Times Radio?

I don’t give a monkeys what people think about the BBC, I was simply pointing out how fallacious your earlier post was. I do care about accuracy.

Thank you! I'm sure there are many more of us around, but it's so hard to say what you think because there are so many very entrenched views on either side of the debate.

I think transwomen would find it oppressive to be called a man, because they do not believe they are men.

Gender critical feminists would say they are men.

I'm suggesting there might be room for a middle position where we say Transwomen are Transwomen. They used to be men but they have chosen to become transwomen.

It wouldn't please either side of the debate though!

This post was about people frothing about the drugs used to induce lactation and how they might affect the baby. I was pointing out that they are used for inducing lactation in natal women, not just transwomen, so any concern should be equally levelled at both. I guess it isn’t as fun to call the lesbians out, though.

And you people have no sense of humour.

I thought I’d seen some ignorant comments on here in my time, but this truly takes the cake.

Times radio is far right? You people are mad

Although maybe some biology for you. People are talking about men trying to breastfeed.

But we’re the fascists, apparently. Go figure

I still listen but only just. I like various programmes but I used to be fully onboard

The ick factor comes from trans WOMEN breastfeeding.

Not trans men.

There’s a state broadcaster. You must oblige.

😂

You’re very invested in what people think of the BBC

I don’t really care about that though. I mean so what if people prefer Times Radio. You’ll get over it.

I’m great at maths btw.

This is what horrifies me.

Setting aside the "we are men" bollix, why is this permitted at all?

No-one ever challenges them regarding the effects to testosterone on a developing foetus - it's a hell of a powerful hormone. Women who take it, and then come off it still retain their masculinised voices, beards and extra body hair, so you can't tell me it just fades away like it had never happened.

I can't understand any doctor even considering this being appropriate - though I suppose at least some of these women just stop taking it long enough to get pregnant etc and no-one can do anything about it. It's the most selfish thing anyone can do and it is a thing that most disgusts me - using a child as a proper for your ego. And yes - I know many non-trans parents do this, too, but IT ISN'T RIGHT!

Ironically, pregnancy and childbirth are also among the most "female" things that anyone can do, in that although not all women can become pregnant, ONLY women can become pregnant.

I do hope that doctors and hospitals are going to be monitoring the health and development of these poor babies very closely. No-one knows what ticking time-bomb is lurking in their tiny bodies, and seemingly their parents don't even care.

We are warned against smoking, drinking, taking drugs - even eating particular foods - when pregnant, then these women do this! I just can't believe how self-obsessed some people can be. I dread to think what long=term health hours may be awaiting them in 5, 10, 20, even 50 years time. It's awful.

Poor babies.

(And yes - R4 is now complete and utter sh!te)

I haven’t RTFT so apologies if this has been said.
The thing is that the staff at R4 (the behind the scenes researchers and editors etc) are all much younger than us now (I’m also 50s) so the output is reflecting that generational shift. Add to that that they are mostly privileged (white and very, very middle class) and haven’t experienced the really harrowing negative impact of this ideology (losing single sex spaces like prisons, refuges etc). I know someone who is pretty senior there and I have been in to see some shows being produced and I felt OLD. Basically the kids have taken over R4, don’t be fooled by the familiar / older presenters as they are not in control of the content. The Stephen Nolan podcast covered the wokerisation at BBC in detail. Jenni Murray left R4 for good reasons.

Turn your tuning dial far to the right

Yes, and the lesson they want you to learn is what an awful person you are, what a terrible place your country is, and how you should be jolly well ashamed of yourself.