Radio 4. Right now. Is freaking me out.

you've got to wonder what else they are keeping from us to control the narrative when important news items are ignored. And what they are actively feeding us to control the narrative when they adopt the "sex assigned at birth" type speak and groom children with programs about "100 genders". I feel manipulated when I listen to the BBC. So I don't listen.

This. Thank you for saying it. I was a BBC and Guardian devotee for 40 years or more. Guardian on the commute to work, Guardian on a Saturday. And then on 31 December 2015 there were mass, organised attacks on women in Cologne: 2000 men who organised to sexually assault around 1000 women. And the Guardian didn't mention it until days later. Even the BBC took its time. They both, in their coverage, played down the misogyny and appalling effect it had on so many women because of the inconvenient fact that most of the men who had carried out the attacks were Muslim immigrants.

Some days after that Gaby Hinsliff wrote a really shocking piece about it in the Guardian, minimising it. A day or two later Deborah Orr published a piece as a riposte, also in the Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/09/the-left-must-admit-the-truth-about-the-assaults-on-women-in-cologne

And that was that: 1000 women attacked and the Guardian had nothing much to say. It suddenly dawned on me that if the Guardian and the BBC weren't reporting this as it needed to be reported, what else weren't they reporting? That was the point when I started to grow up and realise that the Left isn't necessarily a friend to women and that the Guardian is as biassed and as complicit in hiding things as any other media outlet.

Ohhh, I love R4. Whenever I listen, I seem to learn about something.

I'm a grandmother and worry about my five grandchildren as do their mothers. We talk about it. There's so much secrecy around their education in Wales.

"To be woke is a fashionable identity. Like most creations derived from Black culture, woke was commodified and diluted of its essence. Anyone or anything can be woke: a brand, company, person. In capitalism’s possession, woke is more about performative grandstanding than anything else. Social media, which encourages behavior that’s performative, amplifies this.”
Elijah Watson

@BadGranny I think that's a very narrow view. Most of here are mothers. If I see something which is hurting children then it does affect me, whether or not my own child gets pulled into it. It's called empathy. Most people see empathy as a good trait btw.

@ILikeDungs it's just too ghastly.

Ok, Granny, that's fair enough if you are saying "if it doesn't involve me or mine, crack on."

But why then butt in on a thread to admonish a poster for speaking out?

The trouble is that individual people ARE doing things that are bad for themselves and society, in the firm belief that these actions are good for themselves and society. They are being gaslit and groomed in these beliefs. I am happy that people are speaking up against that. You can stand back and stay out of it, that's fine too.

But when you specify that "as long as what they do is legal" we do have to keep in mind that the most outrageous actions are seemingly legal in this brave new world: cutting off perfectly healthy breasts and genitals, allowing young people to block puberty with untested drugs, celebrating a man who publicly exhibits his kink by posting images of himself "breastfeeding" an infant online (how IS this legal? it is child sexual abuse), and the continual abuse of women online who speak up against any of this.

I would just ask that you not be one of them, telling women not to speak.
Let women speak.

Of course they're not interchangeable , that's the point @Soozikinzii was making

Individual people choose to do things I think are stupid, bad for society, may have long term consequence, or may cause hurt. If I know those people personally, I may counsel them to re-consider. If it’s someone I don’t have a personal stake in, their choices are their own, and provided what they do is legal (and society has every right to prosecute someone who does something illegal), and provided it doesn’t do me or mine harm, then it’s really none of my business. I’m bored with people who take up ‘causes’ on behalf of people they think are likely to be harmed, and in doing so, instead cause harm to those they fulminate against.

if @Pluvia is personally affected by the issues, she is at perfect liberty to challenge directly those she believes are doing her harm. Whipping up indignation in a social media forum is not an effective way to address the issues.

A word's meaning is dependent on how it is used, and it changes with time.
That's no longer how most people use it, including people who say it about themselves. I'd say the volume of people who use it as to indicate they are more virtuous than others is much higher than anyone using it in the old sense.

Well sorry but just as certain people keep trying to pinch women's words to describe and refer to ourselves, we the people fighting back against the encroachment of 'gender identity ideology' into all aspects of life and public institutions will be sticking with 'woke' as a catch-all (well understood in the British media now at least) for this massive overreach into multiple 'intersectional' 'equalities' areas.

'Woke' means aware, awakened, to racism. It's ridiculous to use it about this.

Yes! I knew this poster brought someone to mind. Not so much jolyon, but one of those who keep giving him money for his vanity project.

@BadGranny I disagree with you. You may climb down off your soapbox now.

But what do you disagree with, specifically, in what Pluvia has said? Genuinely curious, not sniping

I at least acknowledge being trans and being gay aren't interchangeable options

I don't think it's about 'just being gay', but I've never understood a difference between being gender non conforming and being 'trans'.

Or specifically, a difference that doesn't depend on recourse to social stereotypes or an unspecified 'feeling'.

Yes, I am extremely boring and introverted.

I'm not sure 'just being gay' is any more reasonable a demand than 'just be straight'. Whilst the whole trans thing puzzles me, I at least acknowledge being trans and being gay aren't interchangeable options.

Same thing has happened with ABC in Australia, except even worse. It used to be quality broadcasting.

I disagree with you. You may climb down off your soapbox now.

Bless you

I don’t agree that the Guardian has an obvious bias.

<snork>

This is exactly my experience (apart from the Archers, which I couldn't listen to ever).

If the BBC, in newscasts or especially Woman's Hour, are NOT covering very important women's issues but are interviewing Grace Lavery, for instance, on WH, about his book which is about his penis... Well honestly, they are just trolling women, no? Evan Davis certainly does with his gleeful coverage of all things trans, contrasting sharply with his treatment of guests 'on the other side', like Harry Miller who challenged the College of Policing in court.

We all know they are not reporting ALL the news, because other outlets carry stories the BBC won't touch. We know, and they know we know, and we know they know we know is the madness that is going on right now.

WH made the mistake on twitter once of asking who they should have on. Every second tweet asked for an interview with Helen Joyce. She has never been interviewed by the BBC, despite her bestselling book. Anyone who doesn't know about her-- go on youtube and look up interviews. Any one of them, really. She is good at cutting through the crap and setting out the facts in a way that is so sensible, so reasonable. Which is why the BBC ban her, l believe.

Since the BBC knows they are not fooling quite a large group of would-be listeners (they are possibly fooling the ones who stick to BBC and The Guardian for news though) I do wonder: what is the plan? Was there a meeting where this direction was decided? Or are new graduates working behind the scenes to orchestrate the world as they would wish it to be?

And as someone else said, you've got to wonder what else they are keeping from us to control the narrative when important news items are ignored. And what they are actively feeding us to control the narrative when they adopt the "sex assigned at birth" type speak and groom children with programs about "100 genders". I feel manipulated when I listen to the BBC. So I don't listen.

Jakers that was your ambition to listen to the radio when you retired

I feel well and truly diddled by radio 4 because I'd always planned on spending my retirement listening to intelligent and interesting radio programmes on it, now I can't, and there's no other alternative.

Lots of great podcasts out there. I'm enjoying The Rest Is History and The Rest Is Politics.