Radio 4. Right now. Is freaking me out.

Who says exactly the same?

As in same biology?

I don’t think they do. Eg A female can play a sport and be excellent at football, it doesn’t mean they have to play with men.

This is it. You couch it in ‘oh but we’re just debating’ but what happens is that anyone who disagrees is targeted.

I did not target you. I pointed out that you only had ad hominem attacks, which you have repeated here. You tried to discredit through fallacious argument. Are you able to respond in a way that adds to the discussion?

...just spreading hate - both about trans people and against anyone who dares to question your stance.

I don't see a lot of posters on here refusing to have their "stance" questioned. Well, maybe a few.

I love Mumsnet. One minute raging that men and women are exactly the same and any difference is just the patriarchy at work damn that evil patriarchy. The next minute raging that biology matters and why won't people see that.
Schrodinger's cat has nothing on this.

I work with 10 year olds with a greater level of maturity. And as a 50-something woman of colour, I’ve put up with more hate and hate speech than you will ever know, so your little strop is fairly meaningless. I fully understand what is hate, thanks. Concern for the welfare, health and legal rights of children and women is not it.

”even link to evidence counter to the accepted wisdom that all trans = anti-women”

Isn’t this just the same old NAMALT / NAPALT type intervention though?

Not all transwomen are “anti-women,” just as not all men are abusers, not all Policemen are Wayne Couzens wannabes etc etc etc.

But a significant number demonstrate, time after time, that they are, or are very happy to stand next to those that are, whilst holding signs which advocate violence against women.

It’s an echo chamber. If you walked up to 95% of the British public right now, in a town centre they would tell you men can’t give birth.

It’s odd as I still rate the BBC for music and sport. I like seeing Wimbledon and Glastonbury on there and R6 is vital for the U.K. music scene

But when I see the move away from pro women there and even worse in The Guardian it strains or stops that connection

Plus general bias

But it can do well in some areas

It's institutional gaslighting by the BBC. But people are waking up to their reality-denying nonsense.

This is it. You couch it in ‘oh but we’re just debating’ but what happens is that anyone who disagrees is targeted. I’ve been likened to the twat who bludgeoned a fox to death because I defended the BBC on here.

It’s nasty behaviour, and it makes you all look like nasty people.

Then as soon as you’re called out on it, you turn it around as ‘oh, look, that person says we’re nasty, but they’re the nasty one’. It happens all the time in trans threads, which is why MN HQ probably like hiding them in the feminist pages. You think you’re revealing the truth and making people aware, but you’re just spreading hate - both about trans people and against anyone who dares to question your stance.

I didn't say it was. I am pro women but not anti trans.

This is all they have. Name calling.

We are "nasty hornets", "vipers" and "rancid".

For the record there is no accepted wisdom (you mean amongst women l assume) that trans equals anti-women. That just is not true. Most women that I know will simply say "Sometimes, sex matters".

We can build a world around this, surely? Dress how you want, call yourself what you like, love whoever will have you --women are not a hive mind but in general they will agree, and yet there are some situations where biology matters.

Someone here is exhibiting hate. I think the other posters can see who it is.

Not ironic at all. But you are missing the main point, being pro women isn’t anti trans.

Ironic comment given any woman who isn't anti trans will be immediately shouted down if they try to speak on mumsnet. Most don't engage now for that reason.

I am not interested in being lectured by you. Spread your hate somewhere else. Not interested.

Can you specify what 'hate' you are talking about? I don't see 'hate'.

Because the second anyone even tries to put forward an alternative view - or even link to evidence counter to the accepted wisdom that all trans = anti-women - you nasty hornets come stinging. It’s just not worth the time or effort to engage.

I’m genuinely considering realigning my views on gender because I don’t want to be associated with the likes of the GC on MN. It’s rancid.

Agree this is a very poor response.

Let women speak indeed

I am not interested in being lectured by you. Spread your hate somewhere else. Not interested.

Why exactly are posters so gleefully shutting down these discussions?

If something is true, how can it be hate?
Let women speak.

Oh my goodness. Are you 8? Surely the whole point of a discussion board is to read/ discuss/ hear other points of view?

Not metaphorically stick fingers in ears and say ‘La la La can’t hear you’. Just because someone has a different opinion does’t mean they are spreading a message of ‘hate’.

As they used to say in the old days: talk to the hand cos the face ain’t listening.

I am not interested in being lectured by you. Spread your hate somewhere else. Not interested.

Uh, in the biological sense, having a baby is the most womanly thing a woman can possibly do because only women can do it.

It has nothing to do with “performing femininity,” if that what you are trying to imply here (pink, sparkles etc) That is literally the whole point of this thread.

Of course transmen are not a threat to women. They are women after all. Transmen claiming they are men who give birth is a complete nonsense, and l think that is what the OP was feeling.

I feel that Freddy just loves to wind people up and to Freddy, the shock is all. Magazine cover photo: Pregnant Man!! Only actually no, it's a woman on drugs. We can all go home.

Yes

Trans men are no threat to you so why not live and let live? You didn't have to listen.

Have you actually read the thread? 🙄

Trans men are no threat to you so why not live and let live? You didn't have to listen.