Radio 4. Right now. Is freaking me out.

I can assure you miss Jones never crossed paths with the probation service but she never broke the law.

Yes, Pluvia, and otherwise intelligent people have been conned into thinking they should tolerate the intolerable in the name of "progress".

So for instance if a transwoman feels more 'authentic' by breastfeeding, they think why not? They are women, right? Other women induce lactation, right?And feel a warm self-congratulatory glow of virtue for backing something that in the real world is glaringly unacceptable and fetishistic.

Difficult women center the child's needs and ask awkward questions which must be shut down.

where it is difficult to have rational conversations with the adherents of these ideologies. Characterising the discourse around gender ideology as a “cult mindset,”

IIRC (some time since I read their playbook) Denton's acknowledged that trans ideology would be very difficult to persuade the general public to go along with, so they suggested refusing to debate and accusing those who resisted of being hateful etc. Socrates and Bingbang and all the others failing to engage, accusing us of attacking them (exterminating them, even) and telling us to talk to the hand (so retro!) and shut the door behind us etc are only doing what TRAs have always done. Which is avoid answering women's questions at all cost because they expose the emptiness that lies behind trans ideology. There's just a little man with a megaphone behind the curtain.

And now we're free to use words like autogynephilia and we have Ministry of Justice data and Lia Thomas and Isla Bryson/ Adam Graham et al it's really, really hard for them to defend the situation. They are defending the indefensible. They've been badly conned and like most people who've fallen for a scam they don't want to admit it — even to themselves.

Coincidentally, Socrates "I don't do cults", I have just today been listening to Janja Lalich being interviewed on the Savage Minds substack:
https://savageminds.substack.com/p/janja-lalich?utm_source=podcast-email%2Csubstack&publication_id=65949&post_id=105974561&utm_medium=email#details

"Delving into the current maelstrom of gender ideology within the west, Lalich observes the current upheaval over this ideology, comparing this with other ideological movements like QAnon, where it is difficult to have rational conversations with the adherents of these ideologies. Characterising the discourse around gender ideology as a “cult mindset,” Lalich notes that the real harm of gender ideology is how it is gaining vast social acceptance while isolating those voices who speak against this orthodoxy, comparing this ideology to McCarthyism during the 1950s where a tremendous political backlash similarly caused people to lose their families, careers, communities, and lives."

The issue for me is when males demand access to women’s sports and spaces women get to say how they feel about that.

So those who feel they have more balanced and reasonable arguments, if they could say how they think that would work in practise we might see something not as yet resolved

There’s also a battle over language, who gets to define what. There’s no real way to compromise

I understand, you have very strong views but don't have the confidence, or perhaps the ability, to defend them under scrutiny. That's okay, I can respect that. Many people don't particularly like that feeling of embarrassment when their arguments are pulled apart.

I can't believe some of the shite that radio and also tv news broadcast. A man cannot give birth to a child as he doesn't have a womb. I'm sick of seeing articles showing a man claiming to breastfeed. We live in a weird world right now. Maybe it's always been weird and I just never realised.

You missed 'you're not the boss of me' and 'nyah nyah'

It's odd you use the word 'cult' to describe GC views. To me, gender ideology often feels like a cult of silence.

I have very strong views, just not interested in the twisting and feeding frenzy which ensues. It's not odd not wanting to share them in that sort of hostile binary /groupthink 'debate' environment.

So you are here to accomplish what? To mock posters with primary school taunts.

If it makes you feel better to think that I have not considered the topic enough,, you do you. I have very strong views, just not interested in the twisting and feeding frenzy which ensues. It's not odd not wanting to share them in that sort of hostile binary /groupthink 'debate' environment.

You have that the wrong way round. I’m happy to engage on here it’s you that has an issue with it.

I’ll stay and see if others are able to answer.

You can decide if you go, and shut your door on the way out.

But can others reading this assume that you do have some views on these questions, even if you're not sharing them for whatever odd reason? Or have you, perhaps, not considered the topic enough to answer?

For more information see: 'I don't owe you anything' and 'shut the door on your way out'

And this is relevant because?? Having worked in the probation service I have come across many "Miss Joneses". Some nice, some not so much. I don't think we should be basing public policy on anecdotes.

You are avoiding answering with excuses.

I don't know the other poster nor how much our views align. I do know what 'Feminist' and 'GC' 'debates' look like on MN and it ain't pretty or informative, unless you want to know what hate is. That's my point.

I don’t think it can be answered in a way that works, hence the post back
I don't even know what that statement means.

Its funny, those questions would be reasonable in balanced debates.
What is funny is it seems there is never a way to pose this rather simple question without people complaining rather than answering it.

This might be funny if it weren't so sad. You won't debate (in effect, you shut down debate) because "MN shuts down debate". Whaaat?

Clearly not true, questions were asked. If you are confident in your answer there is no reason not to respond.

Decades ago we had a tenant Mr Jones who took the drugs, underwent gender reassignment as in a surgical procedure by Miss Evans at ysbyty Glan Clwyd. Miss Jones then needed a new tenancy agreement. She went through so much physically and mentally. Was a lovely lady since departed.

So don't lecture me about the willie wavers demanding x y and z

Oh well

There is obviously agreement between you and another poster on what is reasonable but how that works in practise for women is key.

I don’t think it can be answered in a way that works, hence the post back

Its funny, those questions would be reasonable in balanced debates. Here on MN they are used to tag targets for extermination by those who have co-opted GC views to perpetuate hate, shut down debate and bully other women into submission.

So in answer to your demands. I don't do cults, so thanks but no thanks.

No disrespect but on an anonymous forum you could be anyone. If you've published papers put them up on here for discussion otherwise. Bless your heart.

I too was a guardian and BBC devotee but now really only listen to podcasts.

The BBC and Guardian make no secret that they consider women beneath contempt in how they report. Any negative consequence on women of the mass immigration of culturally different men or the impact of TRActivists are routinely ignored.

The Cologne events were horrific and totally downplayed. It should have been a huge wake up call.

Thanks for posting the article, I hadn't seen that one.

Same questions as for pp

Do you agree with males in female sports, prisons and changing rooms?

What is your view on compelled pronouns

who have banned any kind of trans health care for minors

Have you read these laws? They aren't what you are claiming.

Good point, well made. Sadly, however, lost on the majority of the responders for exactly the reason you state.