Elliot Page on Elizabeth Day

@ArabeIIaScott That's pretty disgusting not gonna lie. I'm sorry u had to see that.

Where is a woman supposed to go when a violent male is in the spaces specifically set up for her safety and protection? Stay at home I guess... as seems to be the latest advice from TRAs.

Muscle mass doesn't significantly reduce after hormone treatment.

Longitudinal studies examining the effects of testosterone suppression on muscle mass and strength in transgender women consistently show very modest changes, where the loss of lean body mass, muscle area and strength typically amounts to approximately 5% after 12 months of treatment. Thus, the muscular advantage enjoyed by transgender women is only minimally reduced when testosterone is suppressed.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33289906/

The waiting times for Transgender patients is common knowledge I have no idea what you are on about. If you look up any GIC in the UK you will find public information about the waiting times for a first appointment.

I posted something from GenderGP to explain how that is the only viable path for safe HRT prescription and a biological transition without a diagnosis of gender dysphoria an initial private first appointment for costs at least £300. Check out "Gender Care". https://gendercare.co.uk/ for example. You need 2 separate appointments with different psychologists for an assessment and regular checks with an Endocrinologist which the NHS will not pay for to even ask for a HRT prescription alone.

When I have time i'll look through the Detransition evidence again. Keep in mind any statistics from another country are useless especially from the USA since they have planned parenthood which offers informed consent.

Personal experience of transwomen in womens loos?

Yes. I met a transwoman in a women's toilet when I was 17. He was masturbating against the sink.

I don't really know a Trans Man or Trans Woman who wouldn't want to. If there are seriously Transgender people out there who are not happy with mixed sex facilities and refuse to use them I want to meet them and chat.

The issue is nobody is building GN facilities because it's not seen as a priority at the moment. At my university there is exactly 1 GN toilet for the entire campus which spreads over 2 miles in length

Of course they have a choice. They wait on the NHS like everyone else who needs treatment. They're far from alone in having long waiting times for appointments and treatments.

You are also charged a subscription fee, have to do an information gathering session, etc... Lots of hidden charges. It's a complete scam but Trans Women and Trans Men don't really have a choice.

I'm not posting random links I linked the wrong thing because I was rushing to post a reply. I'm trying to work at the moment as well (quite un-successfully haha). This could be fixed easily but I can't edit posts

Please read the actual costs. You need to be a member before even accessing the service and the medication they provide.

Ah, right, and to become a member All patients pay a one-off set up fee of £195 which enables them to subscribe as a member of our service. Why would GenderGP put a costs page on their website for all to look at, but only give you the TRUE costs once you’ve handed over £195? Sounds a bit Scientologyish.

I’m baffled by your posts, I have to say. It’s like you’re throwing random links around in the hope that nobody will bother clicking on them.

@evieowlette I'm glad your friend plans to use and uses mixed sex facilities.

Please stop spreading misinformation. We KNOW there is no credible analysis done on the GIDS patients. There will likely be transcripts available somewhere with just that admission in court. Hence the Cass investigation and report.

I cannot believe you posted something from Gender GP. How ridiculous! It is their livelihood they are supporting and there is no onus on them to be truthful. At all. They have been proven to be issuing prescriptions for patients after the Bell decision was handed down. They are a profit making business.

There are also stats up until the massive increases in teenaged female patients of detransition rates of 8% to 9 % across a couple of different reviews. Again, this is before the massive increase in numbers.

So, please. Stop spreading harmful misinformation.

They’re really not (see my previous post)

Please read the actual costs. You need to be a member before even accessing the service and the medication they provide.

I really don't know a single Trans Woman who isn't afraid of entering a Women's only space. My friend has described it as terrifying and every time I go out with her she plans out where the nearest Gender Neutral bathroom is. Heck i've booked tables near a GN bathroom just for this singular reason.

Have you had any personal experience of this? If so I am genuinely curious

yeah you completely miss calculated that.

I calculated nothing, C&Pd it directly from GenderGP’s website, in the “Costs” page.

They are a pretty good marker

yeah you completely miss calculated that. I helped my friend figure out the costs. This is over 3 years for a Trans Woman. It's not un-affordable but GenderGP offer the bare minimum and the lowest dose of medication out of any provider making it kind of useless. It's also not considered very safe because they don't book regular Endocrinologist appointments. It's basically DIY hormones but you pay more. It also doesn't include laser hair removal, GRS, Name change costs, Gender Marker change costs etc...

GENDERGP COSTS

Set-up fee: £195
Subscription fee: £30 x (12 x 3) = £1080
Information gathering: £65
Follow up sessions: £30 x 6 = £180
Discover session: £60
Medication: £20 x (12 x 3) = £720

Full health check = £250 * 3 = £750
Oestrogen = £50 (4 * 3) = £600

TOTAL (WITHOUT BLOOD TESTS) = £2300
TOTAL (WITH BLOOD TESTS) = £3650

Because that is literally all she talks about and 100% the way she comes across. Meanwhile males are the total opposite when they transition and barge into women's spaces.

A little thought could have answered your own question.

That study examined the Patient assessment reports created between August 1st 2016 to August 2017 for words related to detransition or regret.
which kinda excludes those who disconnected with the service and detransitioned

Heres another article explaining that the data we have on detransitioners is incomplete

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-023-02623-5

Ideally, to measure discontinuation, detransition, and/or regret, a clinic or study would wait the appropriate follow-up time and then collect discontinuation, detransition, and/or regret data from everyone who started medical transition in a well-characterized sample. The study would use accurate measurement instruments for clearly defined definitions of discontinuation, detransition, and/or regret, and, to be relevant for assessing protocols or risk, the sample would also be comparable to the sample of interest.

So overall I’d say your quote that transition is the most effective treatment on the NHS is a little…err, bold

I wouldn't have any issues with anyone who wants to be trans if their beliefs had a basis in reality. It seems that believing changing actual sex happens, TW have periods, can breastfeed , that taking an inverted penis makes an actual vagina, that taking muscle from the arm and rolling it up is exactly the same as a penis, are all widely held beliefs. A trans man told me that their penis was fully functioning! Just like a real one.And we are supposed to believe that living for years as a man makes no difference to their physical strength.And we are all supposed to say how wonderful a person looks and how feminine an obvious man is. Now, if the person in question just got on quietly with life and didn't ask me to indulge in their delusions we would all get on better.

My first point would be that rates of detransition alone aren't a good measure of treatment success. And, there are many issues with that review of patient notes that many people posting here have gone over before.

And, I have no issue with adults presenting how they wish, or having whatever treatment they and their HCPs feel is necessary for them. None of that would ever enable anyone to change sex.

@evieowlette it's laughable that you think @ArabeIIaScott hasn't heard your nonsense lines of argument before... are you new here? 😂

GenderGP, the organisation whose mission:

Is to make gender-affirming healthcare, advice and education available to gender diverse people, and those who support them. The long term goal of our transgender clinic is to alleviate the suffering associated with discrimination and prejudice too often faced by this minority group.

Their costs - it’s a private healthcare company whose primary aim is to make money:

*Estimated Private Medication Costs:
Feminising:

• Oestrogel – from £28 for a three month supply
• Estradiol Tablets – from £12 for a three month supply

• Testogel – from £40 for a one month supply
• Sustanon – from £10 for a one month supply
• Nebido – from £97 for a three month supply

• Anti-androgens – from £10 for a three month supply
• Puberty blocking injections – from £270 for a three month supply
• Puberty blocking nasal spray – from £70-£90 for a one month supply

It is not in GenderGP’s interests to promote research that questions the impact of these treatments on children, adolescents and young people.

And your first link is well over 300 pages long, which of the conference sessions do you suggest we read?

Aaaaaaaaa posted the same link twice. Why can u not edit posts this is so dumb.

https://www.gendergp.com/risk-into-perspective-for-trans-patients/

@Beowulfa You are correct. Sorry about that I have a lot going on so I picked the first google search. I've read it before but never saved it. proper link below

Summary: epath.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Boof-of-abstracts-EPATH2019.pdf#page=139

GenderGP article including the full article reference: