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Original poster

Male and Gender Critical

311 replies

Letmespeak82 · 04/07/2023 20:32

Anyone else find being associated with some of the male Gender Critical activists a bit…well embarrassing? I’m not even going to deal with the dumpster fire that is Glinner (though it seems many on this board love him). But now we have James Esses who is hyper focused on what this woman is wearing. What difference does it make if she wears revealing clothes or not? Typical gross male attitude.

Male and Gender Critical
Male and Gender Critical
OP posts:
Original poster
Letmespeak82 · 04/07/2023 21:17

NotTerfNorCis · 04/07/2023 21:12

I don't think James was saying she's up for it, he was saying what other people on this thread have said, that bondage gear carries a different message to not being into sex.

You'd think someone who was genuinely repulsed by sex wouldn't want to wear bondage gear.

He says “scantily clad” not “wearing bdsm gear”.

clothes are just clothes. People wear them for a variety of reasons. I personally would have thought she was trying to be provocative rather than signalling her sexual interests.

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NotHavingIt · 04/07/2023 21:15

Letmespeak82 · 04/07/2023 21:05

That’s not what I asked you though. Is what a woman wears a sign of her sexual availability?

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If you are displaying your breasts or bottom in very overt ways - you will surely expect people to notice your bottom and your breasts. People will not avert their gaze if they see you on the street. What they make of that you cannot control.

They may think " what a beautiful body"; or they may think " If my bum looked like that I wouldn't be wearing such tiny shorts"; and if you have a beautiful peachy, pert behind then you can well expect men to notice that; likewise your breasts.

Are we really pretending that bottoms and breasts are not sexualised in our culture?

Original poster
Letmespeak82 · 04/07/2023 21:15

donquixotedelamancha · 04/07/2023 21:07

Not seen the original incident so going of the description here.

I don't think public nudity in clothing designed for sexual acts is remotely consistent with being 'asexual'. Even if it were, it still wouldn't be appropriate for public display. It's forcing others to participate in your sexuality.

I don't think he's being misogynist by criticising that any more than the feminists who criticise bondage gear at pride are homophobic.

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James is not posting about bondage gear. He doesn’t even reference it. He references the revealing nature and contrasts it with her claims to be asexual. That’s clearly implying that revealing clothing == up for it.
The critiques of leather and bondage stuff at pride is a completely different angle.

OP posts:
Nomorenonbinary · 04/07/2023 21:14

NotTerfNorCis · 04/07/2023 21:14

Nomorenonbinary this woman https://twitter.com/theyasminbenoit/status/1676249136239108096

Thanks

NotTerfNorCis · 04/07/2023 21:12

I don't think James was saying she's up for it, he was saying what other people on this thread have said, that bondage gear carries a different message to not being into sex.

You'd think someone who was genuinely repulsed by sex wouldn't want to wear bondage gear.

Nomorenonbinary · 04/07/2023 21:12

Who is the woman being talked about here?

ItWentDownMyHeartHole · 04/07/2023 21:11

Well that’s odd. Perhaps she only wears hyper sexual outfits when she’s publicising the fight for the rights for asexuals 🤷‍♀️

Original poster
Letmespeak82 · 04/07/2023 21:11

NotHavingIt · 04/07/2023 21:07

Or even if they aren't, it suggests that they like to play around with sexualised imagery which is intended to be provocative.

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Yes I would assume she is trying to be provocative. Doesn’t mean she’s not asexual and that men like James should think she’s automatically up for it.

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Original poster
Letmespeak82 · 04/07/2023 21:10

NotHavingIt · 04/07/2023 21:06

Impressions are impressions......what we wear does give out subtle signals and we cannot control the reception of those. You'll be fighting that forever.

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Im curious. Would you say the same if we were discussing a rape victim being judged on her clothes? Yes it’s a forever fight. I will still point out the misogyny where I see it.

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NotHavingIt · 04/07/2023 21:07

NotTerfNorCis · 04/07/2023 21:06

Is what a woman wears a sign of her sexual availability?

If anyone, male or female, goes around in bondage gear, it implies they're into bondage.

Or even if they aren't, it suggests that they like to play around with sexualised imagery which is intended to be provocative.

donquixotedelamancha · 04/07/2023 21:07

Letmespeak82 · 04/07/2023 20:48

I don’t think so as I have zero interest in asexuality. That seems to be James issue. My issue is that James is focusing on what this woman is wearing and the revealing of skin as a sign of her sexual inclinations. I really thought we had moved past that but evidently not.

Not seen the original incident so going of the description here.

I don't think public nudity in clothing designed for sexual acts is remotely consistent with being 'asexual'. Even if it were, it still wouldn't be appropriate for public display. It's forcing others to participate in your sexuality.

I don't think he's being misogynist by criticising that any more than the feminists who criticise bondage gear at pride are homophobic.

Original poster
Letmespeak82 · 04/07/2023 21:07

ItWentDownMyHeartHole · 04/07/2023 21:05

I’ve never seen her with anything else on!

just take a look at her Twitter images. It’s just a false statement to say that she exclusively wears bondage stuff.

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NotHavingIt · 04/07/2023 21:06

Letmespeak82 · 04/07/2023 20:56

I don’t disagree. I think we are all aware from rape trials how womens clothing can contribute to impressions about her character. I thought this board would be on the side of fighting those impressions rather than seeing them as inevitable and almost welcome.

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Impressions are impressions......what we wear does give out subtle signals and we cannot control the reception of those. You'll be fighting that forever.

NotTerfNorCis · 04/07/2023 21:06

Is what a woman wears a sign of her sexual availability?

If anyone, male or female, goes around in bondage gear, it implies they're into bondage.

ItWentDownMyHeartHole · 04/07/2023 21:05

I’ve never seen her with anything else on!

Original poster
Letmespeak82 · 04/07/2023 21:05

NotHavingIt · 04/07/2023 21:03

I think that one of the central planks of feminism has been that a woman can wear whatever she likes and that it doesn't say anything about her. That's extremely naive in my view. It might well not say anything about her essential character but the way we present ourselves does send signals about how we want others to see or perceive us.

How that has translated is that women have continued to wear high heels and 'sexy' dresses and so on and this is suppoosed to translate as being free and independent and wearing what you like.

Earlier feminists rejected that sort of 'display' as they recognisd that it tended to codify female sexual 'availability' with a focus on secondary sexual characteristics. some time in the 1980's I reckon, lots of women embraced a certain style of dressing -which was all about power suits, shoulder pads, high heels and the corporate world that represented. Then we had ' Sex and the City' and all of that.......which very much presented that sort of image of supposed female empowerment.

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That’s not what I asked you though. Is what a woman wears a sign of her sexual availability?

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NotHavingIt · 04/07/2023 21:03

Letmespeak82 · 04/07/2023 20:52

Do you think what a woman wears is a sign of her sexual availability? I don’t want to put words in your mouth but it sounds like you do. Forget whether someone is asexual. Could a woman go to an event, wear revealing clothing, and to be completely uninterested in having sex?

I think that one of the central planks of feminism has been that a woman can wear whatever she likes and that it doesn't say anything about her. That's extremely naive in my view. It might well not say anything about her essential character but the way we present ourselves does send signals about how we want others to see or perceive us.

How that has translated is that women have continued to wear high heels and 'sexy' dresses and so on and this is suppoosed to translate as being free and independent and wearing what you like.

Earlier feminists rejected that sort of 'display' as they recognisd that it tended to codify female sexual 'availability' with a focus on secondary sexual characteristics. some time in the 1980's I reckon, lots of women embraced a certain style of dressing -which was all about power suits, shoulder pads, high heels and the corporate world that represented. Then we had ' Sex and the City' and all of that.......which very much presented that sort of image of supposed female empowerment.

AlisonDonut · 04/07/2023 21:03

It is difficult for young people.

If she went to PRIDE in a blouse, cardigan, long skirt and ankle socks with brogues and said 'i want asexual rights' then everyone would say 'nobody wants to fuck you love'. So she has to appear fuckable to be able to make the statement that she doesn't want to fuck.

I do feel for her.

Original poster
Letmespeak82 · 04/07/2023 21:02

ItWentDownMyHeartHole · 04/07/2023 20:56

She wears bondage gear almost exclusively. It’s very much mixed messaging from an avowed asexual.
Short skirt to show off legs, just clothes. BDSM everything, not so much.

Well this just isn’t true. I had a look through her Twitter images and she’s not wearing any bondage gear in the vast majority of pics.

OP posts:
Original poster
Letmespeak82 · 04/07/2023 20:56

NotHavingIt · 04/07/2023 20:54

They are not "just clothes" though. Clothes convey impressions and meaning, whether we like the idea of that or not.

Wearing very sexualised clothing while claiming asexuality creates an impression of monumental dissonnace and a total absence of awareness.

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I don’t disagree. I think we are all aware from rape trials how womens clothing can contribute to impressions about her character. I thought this board would be on the side of fighting those impressions rather than seeing them as inevitable and almost welcome.

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ItWentDownMyHeartHole · 04/07/2023 20:56

She wears bondage gear almost exclusively. It’s very much mixed messaging from an avowed asexual.
Short skirt to show off legs, just clothes. BDSM everything, not so much.

NotTerfNorCis · 04/07/2023 20:56

Clothes make a statement. If someone dresses sexily then it implies they see themselves as a sexual being. That obviously doesn't mean they deserve to be harassed. But it does conflict with the whole 'asexual' thing.

Original poster
Letmespeak82 · 04/07/2023 20:55

Toseland · 04/07/2023 20:52

Are you sure? The photo I saw earlier from Pride was not just revealing clothes. I should think they would send the wrong signal for someone claiming to be asexual.

Why? If you drop the asexual aspect for a moment…could any woman wear revealing clothing and not be up for it over that particular time frame? I wore extremely short miniskirts in the 90s and 00s when sex would be the fort heat thing from my mind. I just felt good in them. What’s the difference?

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NotHavingIt · 04/07/2023 20:54

Letmespeak82 · 04/07/2023 20:44

Well that’s my basic point. When we wear revealing clothes we are not asking some man to come along and have sex with us. They’re just clothes. Presumably she thinks she looks good and more power to her.

They are not "just clothes" though. Clothes convey impressions and meaning, whether we like the idea of that or not.

Wearing very sexualised clothing while claiming asexuality creates an impression of monumental dissonnace and a total absence of awareness.