Should threads be moved out of here as well as in?

I hadn't seen the Annecy thread before and I've not read it yet - I will do, thanks - but looking at that link, it appears to have been started on the 'In the News' board. Is that correct or have I missed something?

Does anyone know the history? Was it moved to Feminism S&G and if so, what was the reason?

@Boiledbeetle and you'll be able to see by scrolling the number of comments deleted for their outright racism.

Thanks I'll go take a look,

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/intheenews/4823326-4-young-children-stabbed-in-annecy?reply=126748541&utmcampaign=thread&utmmmedium=share

This link takes you to a post on the thread where the poster lists crimes specifically committed by people of the same 'cultural/religious' group, while ignoring the ones listed that were committed by white people.

I think the Annecy thread referred to must be about the toddlers and adults stabbed in the park by the man who had moved from Norway or Sweden, leaving behind his wife, and wanted to claim asylum in France but was being refused because he’d been living in Scandinavia for several years.

I don’t remember reading the threads, and have no idea what title they might have had.

@BodegaSushi I've seen the annecy post mentioned a few times. I've had a lot of other stuff going on lately so I've missed more threads than I've been on. Does this still exist? Have a different name? As I can't find anything.

(I'm not asking you to dissect it or anything just trying to find it)

I completely agree with you about posts being in the right place. I can only assume the poster associates ‘woke’ with FWR hence why they thought it the appropriate place to post.

The annecy post however (as I explained on the other thread) had comments very much along the lines of ‘people from these countries hold views that are anti-women’ with a dash of Islamophobia (even though he man was Christian, and even though many Muslims do not hold such antiquated views).

i also participate in some FWR threads, I consider myself to be GC, but the racism does not belong here.

The points that FWR regulars are making in this thread are that:

• the Disney thread and a couple of others have/had nothing to do with women’s rights and therefore there was no reason to post them in FWR;
• there are groups who want to get FWR closed down;
• there have been plenty of examples over the years of In Bad Faith posters starting goady or unpleasant threads / making goady or unpleasant posts in FWR and then swiftly screenshotting them for twitter as ‘evidence’ before the FWR regulars can report the inappropriate posts/ threads and MNHQ can delete them;
• the recent appearance of these “not about women’s rights” threads on FWR raises suspicions that what we are seeing is a new variation on the previous In Bad Faith posters’ attempts to undermine discussions here;
• no one knows who anyone is on the internet, including whether the posters they are interacting with are human / genuine / trolls / chatbots.

I didn’t contribute to the Disney thread as, to me, it had the hallmarks of a goady thread, that would usually find a home in aibu, right from the outset.

Critical Race Theory has no problem with gross generalisations about race, does it? It also posits that nobody should speak or critique anything if a 'person of colour' has spoken.

The annecy thread was the most recent example. Some really horrific racist comments were on there and deleted. Gross generalisations were made about several ethnic groups, around the world.

Due to MN policy of deleting threads and comments, saying you’ve never seen it doesn’t mean it didn’t exist.

My feelings as an ethnic minority are valid.

Yes I agree with this. This has certainly happened to me as a lefty.

It wasn't a coincidence. I started that thread after reading it. Surely it's not rocket science? I was sick of the threads with racist undertones (and as I explained on the Disney thread as well). The article linked mentions the Little Mermaid film as an example of Disney going 'woke' (and therefore broke) and the OP reacted in the first post with a cry laughing emoji. Mocking Disney for being diverse. As a black woman, I'm tired of that shit.

I also referenced other racist threads that have popped up in FWR recently.

Gordon Brown

Never underestimate the shock of having your left wing bubble punctured.
It's a total headfuck.

I was saying on another thread - so may as well repeat it here and embarrass myself twice over - that after the Gordon Brown & Gillian Duffy incident I blamed everyone but Gorgon Brown. (Luckily for me I wasn't on Mumsnet then so there's no evidence.)

I'm not saying it's the only thing going on, but I do think that some of the newer posters are quite likely having a genuine 'What the fuck' moment. I'm not sure it's possible to distinguish those types of post from bad faith ones.

The newspaper/press accusations are nuts anyway, as one of the papers most assiduously analysing, discussing and defending women as a sex class is the very left-wing Morning Star, my regular communist fix.

We have also seen accounts of the recent court cases (re women's rights and safeguarding) from legal correspondents at the Guardian and the BBC. As long as the 'media editors' and 'progressive rainbow correspondents' are kept away from the legal stuff, some more balanced reporting is out there and it is becoming less rare in the left-of-centre media. Even the Guardian and the BBC can't ignore Forstater, Bailey et al. The cases are too big.

"So, I believe that has contributed to people's arguments of 'you are all influenced by far right media'. What I don't really see after years of intensively being on this board is that there is actually a 'drift' of the majority to be right wing. Despite posters declaring it to be so."

Coming back to this.

I also wonder whether the ramping up recently where posters seem to be leveraging the 'right wing media' making us all supporting the 'right wing' or being 'influenced by the right wing', also comes from the slew of court cases and legislation that has been driven by the USA that we discuss and analyse. It seems just discussing and analysing something is now considered proof that we are shilling and supporting the 'far right'.

**Of course, I am not saying that people shouldn't report and discuss what they want at all. In fact, if it is relevant, I say post it and if it isn't something people want to discuss they will ignore it (or used to - unless it was a goady thread).

"The Disney thread had a lot of posters who seemed oddly different in tone from the FWR regulars"

I read the first post on that thread and decided that I wasn't interested enough to post.

However, what I have seen yet again in the past 24 hours is posters who have never posted on FWR but have some posting history on other parts of MNHQ before have come onto a thread and sought to shame posters. Explicitly saying things like 'this is not feminist' or 'you are doing gender critical women no favours' as if they have some higher knowledge.

Again it is them using the leverage that it is people like Fox News, The Times, The Daily Mail and The Telegraph are the only media publishing content about this. They honestly think they are onto something. When all they do when they post is show just how narrow minded they themselves are and so full of prejudice.

Thanks for taking the time to respond I don’t know what American-style anti racism is but will look it up. The attacks that I have seen on Fender were because they have artists such as Nova Twins, Wet Leg and the Linda Lindas as sponsored artists and this caused a “go woke go broke” backlash. It was the first time I had heard the phrase. I have to admit I still don’t understand the furore with Disney but then I haven’t watched any recent Disney films.

Also you know it’s not true FWR when the dry whit and brilliant sarcasm goes. That’s when I get suspicious because it’s hard to properly replicate that, whether through bots or just people trying to infiltrate/discredit, they are just not very funny, whereas genuine posters are.

I think this is another myth the FWR has about itself. I dont doubt there are many really witty and sometimes laugh out loud posts, but more often than not it just ends up with endless posts hijacking a thread while usually only one or two try to out wit each other! Many interesting threads have disappeared into an endless stream of one liners.

Have often thought FWR could benefit from a "letting off steam" thread where it might be possible to post close to the knuckle (by MNHQ standards) comments without hijacking a thread with a totally other purpose.

Didn't there used to be a friday night thread?

Those who are ruining threads are those who presume they know the motives of other posters.

Yes, this.

There was a very nasty one the other day, which I found a bit shocking, several people piled on one poster, who was the OP if I recall correctly. Who wasn't saying anything particularly crazy and was clearly not in bad faith. Lots of posts from new names, and writing styles I didn't recognize.

I remember wondering whether one was actually a bot, or just some sort of professional troll, the posts just gave that impression.

All posts should be placed in the appropriate forum

For many posters here, there is a stark divide between actually not being a racist, and American style antiracism. The latter is the kind that gets called woke, and is exemplified by Kendi's claim that the only way to fight racism is with more racism.

That kind of antiracism is part of a larger movement that includes gender ideology - they are not separate things but one ideology. Which, in my opinion anyway, is in fact deeply racist.

It's very difficult not to see accusations of racism towards those who don't buy into American antiracism as any different than the accusations that TRAs throw around towards anyone who doesn't buy into their POV.

I realize that this is a perspective a lot of MN progressive-left members haven't really seen much of, but I'd suggest that the reflexive assumption that anyone resisting that particular narrative on racial issues must be a bigot is no different than the assumption that anyone not spouting TWAW is a bigot. It reflects a kind of political tribalism that is ultimately uninformed about the perspectives it tries to critisize and even demonize.

I think the tone has really shifted only in the last few months.

I used to come here to be challenged with quite intellectual posts, but now it seems petty, and ‘click batie’.

Also you know it’s not true FWR when the h dry whit and brilliant sarcasm goes. That’s when I get suspicious because it’s hard to properly replicate that, whether through bots or just people trying to infiltrate/discredit, they are just not very funny, whereas genuine posters are.