Petitioning Parliament to ban males from attempting to breastfeed infants

This isn’t about “feeding” babies. It’s about men getting babies to suck their erogenous zones.

I have a feeling “chest feeding” will include female to male transitioners

The NSPCC should have all their powers removed and be disbanded. I've long said it. Vile organisation and captured by evil.

Yes, that makes sense Thelnebriati. And I can see the benefits of a petition as a discussion piece and to raise awareness, even if the examples don't make it into legislation.

More generally, what seems bizarre is that the NHS website says "you will be fully supported" if you choose to "chestfeed", but the only case studies I can find from a quick google are about the ability of a male to produce milk.

It seems so bizarre that everyone would focus on whether a male can produce milk and no-one seems to have asked "yes, but is it actually safe and beneficial for a baby to drink it?".

The world has gone mad.

• If it's child abuse, then it is already covered under existing laws.

Thats why I used the word 'recognise' in the suggested title. Sometimes laws mention specific examples. Its possible this could just be added to existing laws.

At the moment, organisations are treating it as benign or desirable. They need clear guidance that it is neither.

The breastfeeding transwomen from ITV news article is here shown wearing nipple clamps. They obviously have an interest in fetishising breasts and further indicating that they are using the baby for validation or worse.

I don't think a petition is what's needed here:

• If it's child abuse, then it is already covered under existing laws.

• And if it is not child abuse, what would the rationale for banning it be?

Unless you're saying it's not child abuse and it's something else, I don't see what good a petition would do. It seems like it's more a case of querying why social services, the NHS etc are not recognising it as potentially harmful to the child.

There can't possibly be robust evidence on the long-term outcomes for the child, so on what evidence are the medical professionals involved with the baby basing their view that this is to be encouraged?

I would start by researching NHS guidance on this and delving down into the clinical evidence base and guidance for this from a child health perspective and work through it from there, OP.

I've started several petitions. You need 5 sponsors who will sign the petition for it to go live. They should be told that you can see the sponsors names.
The subject needs to be within the remit of the HOC, and the petition does have to be carefully worded. It needs to do the intended job without any unintended effects.
For example, it should not be made illegal to check if a baby is hungry by putting a finger in its mouth.
The intended effect is to stop the NHS, the @NSPCC, and breastfeeding groups from encouraging men from suckling children or turning a blind eye to that behaviour.
(I can't fucking believe I just had to type that.)

So how about 'recognise that a man suckling a child is child abuse' for the title, and something like;
''A mothers body adjusts breast milk to meet the needs of the child.
Using a suckling child for validation or pleasure is child abuse, it is not for the benefit of the child, organisations should not support men (even with a GRC) suckling children''
as the text.

One of my favourites - read it on my Feminist Literature course at uni. Always wanted to adapt it for film or TV but I'm just a pleb who has a job, kids and dreams of a writing career!

You can ban and control legal drugs.

I take some heavy duty pain meds, if I were to hand them out to friends I risk 10 years in prison for supply.

Part of the issue is some females may have some of these paraphilia’s. However not in the same numbers as men.

The wording just needs to be like rape laws - about the male body only - ie - with rape it explicitly involves the penis. Breasts and breastfeeding are a natural part of motherhood it would be stupid to de-sex the language of this petition.

It is normal for both sexes to enjoy their own sexed body as part of their sexuality so it doesn’t make any sense to say a woman is an autogynephile.

However, autoandrophilia would be the fetish for women. I think it is abusive for mothers to try to make their children pretend they are men, but that is besides the point.

A man abusing a child’s suckling instinct is abuse.

@zibzibara i had the same thought about a petition and was thinking it should be about child abuse/abuse of non-consenting adults by males to facilitate their paraphilia’s.

Lactophilia
mastofact/breast partialism/mazophilia = breast fetishism
paedophilia
Autogynaephilia
Exhibitionism
Voyeurism

Part of the issue is some females may have some of these paraphilia’s. However not in the same numbers as men.

The awful photo had elements of exhibitionism (public place & selfie) autogynaephilia (women’s clothing), lactophilia and paedophilia.

It’s clear as day.

Kids also get the urge to take their clothes off and wander around naked. Fine. If an adult encourages a kid to do it for their own voyeuristic pleasure, then that is abuse.

Kids bounce up and down on adults lap for fun. Fine. If an adult encourages a kid to do that for their own physical pleasure, then that is abuse.

What matters is who is controlling, designing the experience? Is the one being controlled and guided aware and able to consent? Whose benefit is it for? Is the relationship equal? Is there some power imbalance?

Exactly. That’s the thing which is problematic. It’s the adult calling the shots.

@BernardBlacksMolluscs - there’s a world of difference between a baby rooting around for a nipple and an adult abusing this instinct. I bet your DH didn’t unbutton his shirt and do a selfie when your baby was rooting.

Yup

I’m pretty on the fence about this

1. how practical is it? when I was BF, DH would hold the baby while I sorted myself out and they’d often have a root at his chest. You gonna send him to prison?

2. the baby in that twitter picture was not latched on. If that guy ever breast fed I’ll eat my nipple pads. He’s fucking with you (and the mother of the baby )

humans are stupid and cruel to their partners and irresponsible all the time

the bar for things to be illegal needs to be high. Careful wording required if you want to do this. I’m unlikely to sign

Wasn't there an outcry when the DaliLama got a child to suck his tongue? How is this any different? Arguably it's much worse, yet mention the sacred words and it's suddenly hunky dory.

Has anyone read Marge Piercy’s “Woman on The Edge of Time”?

A woman is able to see into the future and it is a kind of feminist-ish notion of utopia where the division of labour is more equal and sexuality is not seen as requiring social boundaries. I didn’t read to the end. The men breastfeed in it by taking hormones.

I read it years ago in a feminist book group and it made me feel a bit ill that this vision of detached, boundary-less, unsexy kind of ‘kidulthood’ was being presented as utopia (although I don’t know how it ended).

I have a feeling that blokes read it and saw it as instructive.

A pp mentioned Jimmy Savile upthread. I thought ‘lessons have been learned’ about Savile and how abuse can go on in plain sight if no one challenges it. Aren’t there policies and procedures now in place to stop another Savile?

If Savile got kids to suck his body parts on camera there may have been an outcry.

The cocktail of drugs is a side issue.

As is the feelings of revulsion and disgust we feel when we see innocence abused.

The mother-baby dyad should not be intruded upon or interfered with unless it is in the baby’s best interest. It’s abusive to come between a baby and it’s mother if it is not in the baby’s best interest or it’s mother’s.

A man should not be getting a baby to suck his nipples. It is such obvious abuse. There is no reason, in the baby’s interest, to do it.

Just because babies are so helpless and innocent and vulnerable, it is no reason to treat them like their rights don’t matter and it is okay to abuse their suckling instincts to pleasure adults.

There isn’t much nuance to this. It’s pretty black and white.

It’s about child abuse.

Whilst I have all kinds of warning signals going off regarding the 'breast feeder' we run the risk of becoming as crazy as the TRA's. Did anyone confirm that the person had taken cocktails of drugs? Perhaps a letter to the Secretary of State for Health but tackling these sorts of things is best served by tackling women's rights, not trans bashing.

I think this petition would gain publicity, very useful, but not actually achieve much. What we actually need is a medical world, including breast feeding support groups etc, who are not captured and who dare to tell the truth. This we do not have. They all seem to be happily ignoring reality.

You'd have to word it very carefully, as would law makers if it got that far. We see the law of unintended consequences every day now.

If even 'female' and 'male' have lost their proper scientific sense, how could you ensure that trans identified females with a GRC (so legally men) who breastfeed their babies aren't prosecuted?

You could try to get a maximum dose of the drugs set (for baby’s safety) Men need far more of the drugs so that would have the effect of banning them.

There are GC lawyers on Twitter who might be able to help if you DMed.

I agree with this. Activists like to deliberately obscure discussion, if we make an effort to blank them and not be drawn in by their bait we can keep the discussion on track.

NICE guidelines wouldn't really stop anything necessarily in private practice I don't think.