Petitioning Parliament to ban males from attempting to breastfeed infants

Also with surrogacy being pushed as hard as ‘male lesbians’, into what is considered socially acceptable, by activists who want in on the intimacy of the mother-baby dyad, it’s funny that now, apparently, this is something adoptive mothers do. 🤔

This is not something adopters do in the UK, absolutely not. I'm a bit sick of adoption being used as a justification for this, because it does not happen. In the UK adoption is about the best interestes of the child, this is about the wants of the adults.

I can't believe there are people on this thread defending this. Male people don't produce milk. They don't have developed milk ducts or glandular tissue. They can secrete fluid from their nipples by taking a cocktail of drugs. This is not milk. The point of breastfeeding is to feed the baby. It's not to validate the parent, whether mother or father.
It's completely fucked up for a biologically male person to take a bunch of drugs so they can play act at being a breastfeeding mother with a live infant.
No one needs to breastfeed. I didn't due to particular health issues and my child has grown up fine. A trans woman sure as hell doesn't need to either. Anyone who does is putting their desire for validation at the price of a child's need for healthy food.
Anyone who does this should be prosecuted. Hope you get the petition set up, OP. It might not get to parliament or get passed, but this needs to be in the public eye.

I get the feeling that there are some people with those wacky, boundary-void ideas on sex, families and adult-child relationships that flourished in the 1970s making a resurgence. Lots of air-headed, relativist, brainlessly accepting, instinct-squashing, ‘cool’ norms paving the way - like those who ended up doing those weird sex experiments and joining communities with ritual child abuse they push their kids forward for. People don’t start by handing their kids over for ritual abuse, like the Children of God or that hideous stuff on Keep Sweet, Pray and Obey - it’s these idealised instinct squashing norms that come first.

People being ‘shamed’ for ‘not liking the idea’ of what we instinctively know to be abusive and perverse comes first.

I agree @LonginesPrime and I also smell a rat here about lesbians and adoptive mothers inducing lactation.

I have never heard of lesbian mothers doing this. But since men now call themselves lesbians, it seems to be the done thing according to some posters. 🤔
Also with surrogacy being pushed as hard as ‘male lesbians’, into what is considered socially acceptable, by activists who want in on the intimacy of the mother-baby dyad, it’s funny that now, apparently, this is something adoptive mothers do. 🤔

The mother-baby thing is a mother-baby thing. Encouraging people other than the mother to breastfeed the baby is part of a misogynist agenda devalue the primacy of this fundamental human relationship.

But I do think that a baby, breastfed by the mother, who uses the nipples of a loving father to soothe instead of a dummy, is not being harmed in any way.

I know where you all are coming from. I share your concerns. If it is done to attempt to give nutritional benefit I think it is wrong. But I do not think the actual act, in all circumstances, should be made illegal.

But if it's nothing to do with the fact the baby gets milk from the mother's nipples, why would they need to suck male nipples specifically?

If the baby just needs to suck something and the man is providing a random body part that's nothing to do with nutrition, why stop at nipples? I agree that skin to skin contact is important but most men manage that perfectly well without making their babies suck on their nipples.

And why are the NHS, La Leche Leagye and transwomen referring to this as breastfeeding if it's nothing of the sort? The NHS website informs transwomen they might be able to produce milk and will be fully img supported in doing so. So I don't think the argument that male nipples are effectively just human dummies is one that the people in the UK promoting this or practising it have in mind.

I realise you seem to be saying that it's not necessarily a bad thing and are assuming good faith on the part of the father. But what if a father did have a fetish for all things womanly and was in fact using the baby as a prop for sexual thrills? Would that still be ok?

I’m sceptical about this.

If a dad gets into this scenario you set out by chance, that is one thing. If he took a selfie and shared it, or made it a habit, deliberately unbuttoning his shirt and trying to get the baby to latch then there’s a safeguarding risk. The dad should observe certain boundaries.

It used to be the case that wet nurses would suck a baby boy’s penis to get him to settle. We don’t do that any more. Rabbis used to suck a baby’s penis after circumcising him - I don’t think that is acceptable any more.

Children are better safeguarded if we are clear that certain behaviours are pushing certain child-protective boundaries, and that these behaviours should be discouraged.

This sums it up for me. I'd want to get more solid information on the drugs taken and how much actually transfers to baby and the possible effects for baby. I'd also want to know how beneficial the milk would be for baby. In my opinion if breast tissue has formed and all the necessary milk production biology is in place and the drugs are proven as safe for breastfeeding then I don't have an issue with this. In that instance the milk would be actually more beneficial to the baby given that it would be biologically adapted to meet the needs of the individual child and the different things they've been exposed to than donor milk. I personally don't think there's a difference in that respect than say an adoptive parent or parent in a same sex lesbian relationship inducing lactation in order to feed their child to promote their health. If that's the case and the milk is equally beneficial and the drugs taken are proven clinically safe then I don't think your petition is being based on anything more than your discomfort at seeing a trans woman feed their child in that way. And that in itself isn't petition worthy in my opinion as there's lots of things that people find uncomfortable or distasteful but it doesn't mean it should become an enforceable power of law. Surely a trans parent should have the right to make choices for the welfare of their child just as any other parent should. You don't need to agree with it similar to how some people agree/disagree with vaccination due to the chemical effects but its their choice for their children. I also think you'd have a lot of issues with women who look more 'masculine' or are non binary and look more androgynous being challenged for breastfeeding their children in public which can be bloody hard enough as it is.

I agree about purpose. I think I have given an example of an altruistic purpose above that could happen in the UK.

The location is not the key thing here. It is the purpose. The Aka do it because the baby wants to suckle and it’s mother isn’t there, they don’t have dummies, bottles, formula, etc - so they are doing it for a practical reason (they used to also not wear clothes, so it seems a straightforward thing that could happen naturally).

Since we do have bottles, formula, etc, in the UK, there is no practical purpose for men to do it in this country. (The only purpose in this country is because a man has a psycho-sexual disorder which he wants to abusively act out on people who are too innocent and helpless to object - babies).

So the same act can be harmful and abusive or helpful, depending on the purpose.

The location is irrelevant.

For example, an adult whacking a child hard in the middle of its back would be harmful and abusive if the purpose was to vent that adult’s anger, however, if that child was chocking, that whack could save its life.

Well, for example, 2 parents getting through the night with a newborn, who has been fed by mum and handed to dad so mum can get some sleep. Baby finds nipple and latches on. Dad is grateful baby isn’t crying. I would honestly see no problem with that.

It would obviously happen much much less in the UK as the temperature means we spend more time with more clothes on. But skin to skin is good for babies, and if the mum needs sleep then I don’t see the problem with a loving dad doing it.

What circumstances in the UK do you think would be acceptable?

If it can be done in another location in a harmless situation, it doesn’t become harmful just because the location changes.

I know where you all are coming from. I share your concerns. If it is done to attempt to give nutritional benefit I think it is wrong. But I do not think the actual act, in all circumstances, should be made illegal.

How about in the UK, which is what we are talking about. Is there any reason a man would get a baby to suck his nipple in the UK?

I don’t think anyone could argue that the death penalty is harmless to the person being executed. But I do think that a baby, breastfed by the mother, who uses the nipples of a loving father to soothe instead of a dummy, is not being harmed in any way.

I am not disputing that in different circumstances it could be child abuse. I am disputing that it always is.

The argument that another culture does it could also be used to justify FGM or executing gay people, though.

@Shakenbutbarelystirred that’s a red herring. For a start, we don’t have any hunter-gatherer tribes in the UK. Secondly, the Aka haven’t historically had access to baby bottles, sterilising kits, formula milk, dummies or breast pumps.

There is simply no need whatsoever for a man in the UK to try to breastfeed babies. If they attempt to do so, they are doing it for the wrong reasons.

I would go further than saying men only attempting to suckle babies is abuse, also trying to get children to call them ‘mother, mum, auntie’, etc - basically using children to play a role in their fetish identity or sexual delusions, in any way whatsoever, is abuse.

I would sign a petition to ask the NHS to refrain from suggesting that male lactation would be suitable for infant nutrition.

But I wouldn’t sign a petition to suggest that there mere act of suckling on a male is child abuse by that male, and here is why:

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2005/jun/15/childrensservices.familyandrelationships

But this IS perverted in the true sense of the word. It's an attempt to move us away from what's normal and natural.

It wouldn’t surprise me if these men would want to evolve the technology to have an egg for humans to remove the embryo from the woman into, so men could ‘take turns’ incubating, ie- unnaturally, needlessly and selfishly interrupt a natural process for mammals between mother and child, so he could ‘experience’ whatever a woman experiences.

When men have obsessions and fixations, they won’t stop until they’re stopped.

About as useful as taking a turn at being pregnant

Maybe with doing the bottles if no bf, but lactation forget about it man

And there are a lot of bad reasons for a man to do it.

*thing not think

The whole think about whether men could feasibly produce safe or nutritious milk is completely irrelevant.

There’s no good reason for a man to do it.