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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

To ask everyone who has heard of using pronouns to watch this?

239 replies

Moomoola · 03/07/2023 22:34

its a worthwhile introduction/ explanation of what’s going on that I’ve found. Please watch it - and post your responses. It may also be very worthwhile checking what’s going on in your child’s school - if they’re not in hols!
thank you!

Megyn Kelly Explains Why She Will No Longer Use "Preferred Pronouns" as Trans Ideology Grows

Megyn Kelly begins the show with a monologue explaining why she is done using "preferred pronouns" and will base her conversations on trans ideology in reali...

https://youtu.be/FxB0LHvS4fg

OP posts:
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OprahWinfery · 04/07/2023 10:36

I am Left.

Children being mutilated is just one of the consequences of where the pronoun path leads you down. At what point is it too much? A man breastfeeding gunk to a little baby so his fetish can be played out with claps and validation by the dim witted handmaidens?

It is a disgusting LIE. Like slavery and the right to lynching a slave was a lie. The trans movement is trying to create new legal fictions that are wholly disingenuous and at the core, a lie that the general public can all blatantly see through and reject. The GRA should be repealed.

BusyBushBaby · 04/07/2023 10:34

Quote fail, that response was meant for @Emotionalsupportviper

BusyBushBaby · 04/07/2023 10:33

Why do you assume I just sit in an echo chamber? There's a balance to be had between sitting in an echo chamber and listening to every random video on YouTube.

If someone opened a video with an off hand comment about how women's rights don't need airtime anymore now they have full equality with men and political power, you might feel disinclined to spend your limited time listening to them, too. That's similar to what she's just done with gay men and lesbians.

ThatsAboutEnoughOfThat · 04/07/2023 10:25

Yep, with every shriek of Nazi, every justification for rape, every video of a man excreting into a baby's mouth, every podium shot - the vast middle shuffles just a little more right.

The left might want to have a look at itself. It isn't the Megyn Kellys you have to worry about. It is the ACLU caring more about a murdering rapists sexual fetish than his victims https://twitter.com/ACLU/status/1669705153316880385; or laws which allow other male murderers access to women who literally cannot get away: https://nypost.com/2023/06/26/fury-as-trans-woman-who-murdered-three-is-sent-to-female-prison-after-hate-crime/.

It isn't the right who is recruiting. It is the left who seem hell bent on pushing anyone with any shred of critical thinking away.

Thank fuck I have sons who are too old for this insiduous bullshit to mess with them too much. Any woman who supports the TRAs/MRAs is a bloody idiot.

https://twitter.com/ACLU/status/1669705153316880385

Emotionalsupportviper · 04/07/2023 10:23

BusyBushBaby · 04/07/2023 09:44

Why should I listen to someone who opens with a cheap shot at me and shows her ignorance (or disdain for reality, hard to tell which) in her first couple of sentences? There are thousands of voices out there, it's not possible to listen to them all so why would I pick hers?

Why should you listen? Because if you sit in an echo chamber and just listen to your own opinions repeated back at you you will never find out anything.

If you listen to someone and think "They're showing their ignorance" - then fine. You have listened and made up your mind. Even better if you listen to a number of opinions from different stances and compare and contrast them.

If you refuse to listen because "they are ignorant" then it is YOU who are the ignorant one because you haven't even considered other POV, or that they might have a foundation.

Emotionalsupportviper · 04/07/2023 10:17

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 04/07/2023 08:18

Take care Hiding as your evolution into a literal Nazi has apparently begun Confused

The "literal Nazi" were the ones who banned contrary opinions- not the ones who encouraged freedom of thought.

OprahWinfery · 04/07/2023 10:07

It’s a mental health issue. Not a political issue.

Zimunya · 04/07/2023 10:06

Helleofabore · 04/07/2023 08:37

Thank you for sharing Moomoola. I saw this when it first came out. She articulates the background as to why she has made this decision very clearly.

Sometimes it is the people who are confident of not being ‘cancelled’ who can be so clear.

Totally agree, and thank you Moomoola for posting. I vaguely knew of Ms Kelly before your post (clearly I hadn't spent enough time watching Fox News, which can only be a positive!), but I found this very compelling. I'm sure that she and I would not agree on most political stances, but in this matter we are completely aligned. I loved the poem at the end too.

OprahWinfery · 04/07/2023 10:03

We don’t need to listen to both sides. There are biologists who will tell you what we all know.

Pronouns are an obedience test. (Also an IQ test perhaps). This pronoun bollocks need to stop. Transwomen and transmen are exactly that. There is not ANOTHER level they get to. I can’t identify as someone with blue eyes just because I wear contacts. It is a LIE.

Anyone who uses pronouns are enabling THE LIE. Slavery was legal too. These legal fictions are LIES and the public are aware of it and reject it. Transpeople should be left alone to find themselves without it becoming a political battleground between left and right.

AlisonDonut · 04/07/2023 09:55

How do ever hear things at the end of a sentence when you stop at the first words?

This has been the best PRIDE ever, due to the pushback against Gender Identity Ideology. So say many gay and lesbian people.

So reading the next sentence often puts the first into a context.

BusyBushBaby · 04/07/2023 09:44

Emotionalsupportviper · 04/07/2023 07:43

To all those shouting "DON'T LISTEN! SHE'S A BIGOT!"

What are you afraid of?

Why are you afraid to let women speak, and to let people hear?

It's this appalling "NO DEBATE!" attitude which has got us all into he situation we are in, where people are losing their jobs because they affirm simple biological facts; where women are disadvantaged in sports; where violent, sexually aggressive men are placed in prisons with vulnerable women; where "I'm trans" has become a get-out-of-jail free card for any bad behaviour; where children are placed at risk in schools and public toilets, and where ordinary people are now afraid to speak out against what is essentially public perversion (as evidenced by the sexualised nudity at a recent pride march); where homosexuals of both sexes are being accused of "genital obsession/ fascism" because they want to have sexual partners of their own sex - not "gender"..

Had there been proper debate and discussion from the start, then transpeople of both sexes would have been integrated comfortably into society without all of this conflict.

I would say to everyone DO LISTEN!

You may or may not agree with Megyn, but listen to what she has to say. Always listen to both sides of ANY argument before you start throwing about accusations and abuse. If you only listen to one side, without hearing the concerns of the other, how can you properly see the truth?

In almost every debate of this nature the situation is much more nuanced than it appears.

We all need to listen to both sides. No-one should be silenced, or bullied, or coerced into submission. Listen to what all people involved have to say, and THEN make up your mind.

Why should I listen to someone who opens with a cheap shot at me and shows her ignorance (or disdain for reality, hard to tell which) in her first couple of sentences? There are thousands of voices out there, it's not possible to listen to them all so why would I pick hers?

IWillNoLie · 04/07/2023 09:09

Trump is successful because he listens to people’s concerns and picks up and runs with them as campaigning tools. He may not believe them or have thought them through and is lacking in nearly all other personal qualities you would want from a president, but people feel listened to. If he becomes president again then that will be because the liberal left have refused to listen - not just to the right but also to the concerns of the middle. How can you address people’s concerns or show them they are unfounded if you just stick your fingers in your ears and shout ‘La la La, I’m not listening!’?

IWillNoLie · 04/07/2023 08:55

I certainly feel I have been ‘subjected to’ Pride.

Helleofabore · 04/07/2023 08:37

Moomoola · 03/07/2023 22:34

its a worthwhile introduction/ explanation of what’s going on that I’ve found. Please watch it - and post your responses. It may also be very worthwhile checking what’s going on in your child’s school - if they’re not in hols!
thank you!

Thank you for sharing Moomoola. I saw this when it first came out. She articulates the background as to why she has made this decision very clearly.

Sometimes it is the people who are confident of not being ‘cancelled’ who can be so clear.

Helleofabore · 04/07/2023 08:31

Emotionalsupportviper · 04/07/2023 07:43

To all those shouting "DON'T LISTEN! SHE'S A BIGOT!"

What are you afraid of?

Why are you afraid to let women speak, and to let people hear?

It's this appalling "NO DEBATE!" attitude which has got us all into he situation we are in, where people are losing their jobs because they affirm simple biological facts; where women are disadvantaged in sports; where violent, sexually aggressive men are placed in prisons with vulnerable women; where "I'm trans" has become a get-out-of-jail free card for any bad behaviour; where children are placed at risk in schools and public toilets, and where ordinary people are now afraid to speak out against what is essentially public perversion (as evidenced by the sexualised nudity at a recent pride march); where homosexuals of both sexes are being accused of "genital obsession/ fascism" because they want to have sexual partners of their own sex - not "gender"..

Had there been proper debate and discussion from the start, then transpeople of both sexes would have been integrated comfortably into society without all of this conflict.

I would say to everyone DO LISTEN!

You may or may not agree with Megyn, but listen to what she has to say. Always listen to both sides of ANY argument before you start throwing about accusations and abuse. If you only listen to one side, without hearing the concerns of the other, how can you properly see the truth?

In almost every debate of this nature the situation is much more nuanced than it appears.

We all need to listen to both sides. No-one should be silenced, or bullied, or coerced into submission. Listen to what all people involved have to say, and THEN make up your mind.

Yes!!!

FFS this media policing is bizarre. I thought we had moved on from the ‘if you find yourself agreeing with anything a person who is viewed as being far right says, you are aligning yourself with them’. However, it must have just been that I was more selective about the threads I was on because the last two days has been all about this notion.

I cannot comprehend it.

AlisonDonut · 04/07/2023 08:30

Quveas · 04/07/2023 07:43

Right wing, Trump supporting American... yeah, her views are definitely worth listening too.

Half the USA can be described as such.

I am really interested in this whole 'That person bad/evil/bigot/right wing - never listen to them' dilemma...as surely the aim of left wingism is to try and get right wingers to come over to the left? So if a person says things that show they might be softening a bit, why can they never be allowed to move over? To change their minds?

Do right wing extremists bang on about their 'people' not standing next to or 'aligning' with left wingers for fear of being tainted?

Helleofabore · 04/07/2023 08:18

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 04/07/2023 08:18

Take care Hiding as your evolution into a literal Nazi has apparently begun Confused

Hidinginaonesie · 04/07/2023 08:10

Bloody hell, can pps please stop requesting the thread be moved/removed/not watched!!
I’ve watched the clip and I 100% agree with her on this subject. I’ve also watched other opinions of hers that I don’t agree with at all.
It is possible. And not really that complicated.
I have my own opinions. I’ll watch whatever I want to watch in the knowledge that I’m perfectly capable of making up my own mind as to whether I agree or not.

AlisonDonut · 04/07/2023 08:09

LuckyPeonies · 04/07/2023 01:16

@Iforgotmyusernameagainandagain No, I would not. I refuse to listen to extremists on either side.

@AlisonDonut She is a bigot, a bible thumper, a racist, she minimized the 6 jan insurrection, she is a conspiracy theorist, she gave a platform to even more vile alex jones, I could go on and on. If you google her you will find all you need to know to detest her. That is, if you disagree with with her brand of rightwing christian ideology.

I wouldn't know, as I don't spend my time watching bible thumpers, racists, people who minimised insurrections, conspiracy theorists, not know who Alex Jones is (didn't she host the One Show?) Etc etc etc.

However she is still a woman right? And is entitled to have opinions whether you like her or not.

Helleofabore · 04/07/2023 08:04

marewindham · 04/07/2023 01:10

This is a classic example of what I mentioned recently in site stuff (and got roundly attacked for): people pushing right wing/white supremacist ideology onto us and trying to make us like far right wingers on the grounds that they "know what a woman is".

Megyn Kelly has repeatedly made racist and white supremacist comments (her show in America actually got cancelled over her doing a segment in support of blackface); she regularly speaks out against what she considers the wave of Muslim immigrants in Europe while also claiming to be pro-immigration in the US; she approved an on-air caption referring to Michelle Obama as "Obama's babymomma" and got angry when staffers complained that it was racist and overruled it; she' been accused of racism and creating a culture of systemic racism by her own staffers; dismissed and victim-blamed black victims of police brutality and black people murdered by police; she's referred to African-American culture as "thug-like" and claimed that Michelle Obama leads African American people in "playing the victim"; said that black people murdered by police are to blame for their own murder because they should have just been compliant and not argued (when some black people have been murdered by police while asleep in their own beds, and since when do we give people the death penalty for being argumentative?); said that leaked racist emails from police forces aren't a big deal because "you won't find many companies in America without racist emails", and she's publicly praised and supported Trump while leaked private conversations show that she's anti-Trump.

Of course this is Mumsnet and the threads about black people being murdered by police or black people being hunted down and lynched by thugs are full of comments implying they deserved it and comments trashing the victims (the George Floyd threads and Ahmaud Arbery threads here were disgusting), I bet there are plenty of posters who will howl in outrage at the suggestion that referring to Michelle Obama as "babymomma" isn't racist, who will defend blackface, who will agree with her that Muslims are infesting Europe, because it happens every single time anything to do with race is mentioned.

She's on record as saying that she's not a feminist, she doesn't believe in things like gender quotas or affirmative action requiring companies to hire women, she's mocked the idea of universities have policies on sexual consent and gone on record as saying that student sexual consent policies are "anti-men", she's said she thinks conversation around the idea that there's a gender pay gap are "infantilising", and her book defends sexism as being generational while speaking out against sexism that she personally has experienced.

Oh and she said that people can be turned gay by watching Will and Grace.

Someone in site stuff said (paraphrased) "you must think the women of Mumsnet are not very intelligent if they can't see that people are exploiting GC feminism to try to coerce women into far right" - guess this thread is our chance to find out!

Stop pushing right wing ideology on the grounds that racists hate trans people so that means they're okay and we should listen to them.

And yet, talking specifically about this video, it is always worth listening to understand another person’s perspective and how they articulate it.

If people cannot listen to this clip, that is their own issue and they shouldn’t judge others just listening to it. Or is the act of listening now an act of aligning with?

The topic of ‘they are far right wing’ comes up regularly on FWR, the issue is that it is just as important for people to read and watch a wide range of media so they can form their own view. And it seems very narrow minded to declare that anyone listening to another perspective to be ‘aligning’ or ‘supporting’ or allowing them to ‘influence us’.

as you have said here:

“Someone in site stuff said (paraphrased) "you must think the women of Mumsnet are not very intelligent if they can't see that people are exploiting GC feminism to try to coerce women into far right" - guess this thread is our chance to find out!”

“Stop pushing right wing ideology on the grounds that racists hate trans people so that means they're okay and we should listen to them.”

You either must be very insecure in your own opinions or political beliefs if you honestly think that just listening to this woman’s perspective will coerce feminists to be ‘far right’ or you wish to shut down discussion or you just have a very low opinion of other people’s intelligence and ability to hold and make their own opinions. Maybe you just want to police people’s media consumption.

If you don’t want to listen to it, that is your own business. I tend to listen to what even people I detest just to know what they are saying and understand why because that is my own need. I don’t need random strangers on the internet telling me not to watch something or telling others that even sharing something is wrong. Are we children?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 04/07/2023 07:46

Anyone who thinks being compelled to call men she or her is sone kind of neutral beeee kind act isn’t paying attention

To ask everyone who has heard of using pronouns to watch this?
PermanentTemporary · 04/07/2023 07:45

If Ivanka Trump or her child transitions, watch how fast this lot change their tune on preferred pronouns, probably to the theme of 'but THIS transition is legit'.

Being surrounded by adolescent girls and young women suddenly deciding that they are male or don't have a sex, I use preferred pronouns because those girls need to maintain relationships with other women. They are in a culture which encourages them to think all they need is online 'friends' and it's incredibly dangerous. I'm not listening to some multimillionaress in the US posturing.

Zimunya · 04/07/2023 07:45

Emotionalsupportviper · 04/07/2023 07:43

To all those shouting "DON'T LISTEN! SHE'S A BIGOT!"

What are you afraid of?

Why are you afraid to let women speak, and to let people hear?

It's this appalling "NO DEBATE!" attitude which has got us all into he situation we are in, where people are losing their jobs because they affirm simple biological facts; where women are disadvantaged in sports; where violent, sexually aggressive men are placed in prisons with vulnerable women; where "I'm trans" has become a get-out-of-jail free card for any bad behaviour; where children are placed at risk in schools and public toilets, and where ordinary people are now afraid to speak out against what is essentially public perversion (as evidenced by the sexualised nudity at a recent pride march); where homosexuals of both sexes are being accused of "genital obsession/ fascism" because they want to have sexual partners of their own sex - not "gender"..

Had there been proper debate and discussion from the start, then transpeople of both sexes would have been integrated comfortably into society without all of this conflict.

I would say to everyone DO LISTEN!

You may or may not agree with Megyn, but listen to what she has to say. Always listen to both sides of ANY argument before you start throwing about accusations and abuse. If you only listen to one side, without hearing the concerns of the other, how can you properly see the truth?

In almost every debate of this nature the situation is much more nuanced than it appears.

We all need to listen to both sides. No-one should be silenced, or bullied, or coerced into submission. Listen to what all people involved have to say, and THEN make up your mind.

Love this. Wise counsel.

ThatsAboutEnoughOfThat · 04/07/2023 07:43

Women, having opinions men don't like, and not shutting up when told.

Even worse other women are hearing those opinions and not covering their ears/deleting their threads when instructed.

Outrageous.