To ask everyone who has heard of using pronouns to watch this?

What a great episode. Helen Joyce is so fantastic. So clear, so calm, so righteous.

And while I stopped watching Megyn as I disagree with a lot of her other views and people she chooses to platform, I really really do enjoy her rage on this subject. You can hear her scoff when they're playing the Rachel Levine clip ha ha. Wish Megyn would have replied when Helen pointed out the American political polarization though, she just went mm and changed the subject...

It’s the stopped watch thing, sometimes it tells the right time, but you wouldn’t want to rely on it to catch the right train.

What would you want to rely on it for?

DARVO.

Does the MRA (male supremacist) movement remotely resemble anything you've ever seen on the 'progressive' left?

Me, neither.

But it does show some marked similarities with the (censorious, sexist, homophobic) old right.

The left/right distinction barely exists in any meaningful sense anymore - it's just lazy ideological compartmentalization. To accept or reject ideas based on what area of the political spectrum they happen to come from is a shortcut to actually thinking.

This smearing of feminism with the alt right accusation isn't new. It's been a concerted effort for some time. Along with a more recent one determinedly associating FWR with white supremacism. Coincidence?

I've done some searching around Megyn Kelly, including videos of her alleged racism. I'd never heard of her before. She sounds a horror. I don't for one minute stand with those views, nor with the covert homophobia she demonstrated in the opening minutes of that footage. (I saw the whole thing. I will not be told what I can and cannot watch).

I hold views that are certainly GC - doesn't mean I 'align' with or share the views of every other GC person. I admire KJK's courage in the face of bullying and intimidation; I strongly disagree with some of her assertions. Megyn Kelly's white supremacism and misogynistic views I find nothing short of disgusting - to the point that I question her motivation in standing for women's rights as eloquently as she does in this video when she's made numerous anti-women points I find nothing short of thoroughly offensive. (Likewise Maureen Lipman and Jilly Cooper, who told women off for making a lot of fuss about nothing surrounding #MeToo. That noise can get to fuck.

Nonetheless, she's articulate and persuasive and I agree with most of what she has to say on this footage. It's an infantile, no-shades-of-grey lookout that it's mandatory to agree with every word someone says or none, and if they once utter a questionable comment, it's necessary to dismiss them on every other basis. A four-year-old child can reason this out.

But that's the strategy. The utter lack of nuance that's sprung up with the MRA/TRAs is interesting. They can't all be stupid - I know a good number who are highly intelligent - yet they can't argue a coherent case. 280 characters per tweet doesn't allow for much detail or variation: it's also an effective means of closing down (inconvenient) debate.

But poor Sarah was only expressing the community's anger 'hypothetically'.

I've watched it now, it's long but I found myself engaged enough to listen to the whole thing in one sitting. I've never been a fan of Megyn Kelly's and I never would have guessed she'd be the one to take this up, good for her!

I think she passed the litmus test. Phew!

So, I listened as well... I am now looking forward to posters who come and tell us what it is that Megyn Kelly has said, in this video, and specifically in this video, that they disagree with.

Oh...no.... have I been brainwashed and influenced? Please wims keep checking on me for the next months to make sure. One can't be too careful.

Thanks for posting.

No, @nauticant . Helen Joyce sounds like a person concerned with human’s rights. Concerned with children’s rights to actually develop naturally into human adults.
Basic stuff, I would say.

I've not watched the interview but before I do can anyone tell me if by the end Helen Joyce has been brainwashed into being a racist and a white supremacist?

Oh thanks, that was an amazing interview! Nearly two hours long but I could listen to Helen Joyce all day and all night. I had just decided I MUST go to bed when I saw your post and clicked play… now it’s 06.30 and I’m finally in bed. Well worth a watch.

Bumping with Megyn Kelly's latest interview. I haven't listened but she starts about 4 minutes in.

Can you really, seriously not understand that agreeing with someone that genderism is harmful (or that humans cannot change sex) does not make me agree with all or any of their other opinions? It does not make me support their overall politics or their activities. It does not make me take any action in their favour.

It simply means we agree on one thing. And when that one thing is blindingly obvious, probably most of the world agrees.

No political affiliation should have a monopoly on the safeguarding of children. In a civilised society, we should all strive for this.

This was posted on feminism chat, not on one of the parenting threads

Nope.

?? This was posted on feminism chat, not on one of the parenting threads. Also, MN is far more than a parenting board. And as this thread is posted on feminism, i think one should be free to express doubt in the sincerity of a woman such as kelly, who stated in an interview that feminists are 100% anti-republican (conservative), and also anti-men, and who applauded the scotus for overturning abortion rights. Interview, with clickable link:

For me it’s a no-brainer. I’m definitely not a feminist because I think feminists, that term right now, has become associated with a few different things that I don’t want anything to do with. Feminists of today are 100% anti-Republican, anti-conservative. They can’t stand conservative women.

I think they’re anti-men. Their rhetoric on trying to empower women, too often for me, does so by denigrating men. That’s not the way forward. That’s not the way to empower hearts, minds and I don’t agree with it.

However, I do understand your concern re. the OP’s message being obscured. I have expressed my opinion (probably ad nauseam for those who disagree) and will remove myself from this thread.

For me, the smearing from some on the left of those on the right has become so normalized that I actively read/watch what the so-called nazis, nazi-adjacent right-wing people are saying in order to make up my own mind. Seeing that even J. K. Rowling was smeared as a bigot/transphobe/horrible person by so many on the left, I am now wary of taking anything the left says on face value even though my own politics are left of center.

I also find it patronizing when other people tell me who I should or should not listen to. Therefore, I suppose it's a bit of an own goal of the the left that their antics now actively make me read/watch content of those on the right, whereas before I did not question the integrity and honesty of those on the left.

As for Megyn Kelly's position on pronouns, I agree with her on this point. It's a pity there are not many on the left who are willing to push back against gender ideology in the same way.

I was thinking mainly outside MN, and the collectives of the 70s and 80s like the various groups of the women’s liberation movement, Greenham common etc.

It was originally posted outside of the norty step...

I picked that hepwo. Thanks for clarifying though.

I doubt that @comeatmeallyouwant or cocoloco will be back to read it though. I suspect they were drive by scoldings with the ridiculous notion of presenting a parody of what a feminist thinks.

I answered before I started to look up the names of the shamers because they were not familiar as regular feminist posters. I am tired and didn’t make the connection at first. I was rather horrified that ‘actual feminists’ would be so narrow minded as to not even view original source material before shaming others with such crap as these guilt by association fallacies.

I am sure you are aware of such groups who use that tactic to silence feminists hepwo, if you know what I mean. This really was like a replay from both earlier this year and mid last year - it is like a slightly tweaked deja vu….

You're sadly doing the GC movement real harm and it's a shame some of you are too blinkered to even realise.”

By now it's obvious to anyone not blinkered that the only "harm" emanates from the ridiculous fringe people doing the whole right wing adjacent Nazi name calling thing in the Greens and Lib Dems and Labour crazies. Or Twitter bores.

If they are continuing to shout Nazis at you and that bothers you then I really hope you recover soon!

I don't think we have to worry about Conservative lawmakers who are also on the receiving end of the ridiculous fringe's Nazi name calling nonsense!

If you are worried that Labour believes the Nazi name calling and that's harmful, well, there is sometimes nothing you can do about the bubble the left lives in.

Not directed at you Hellebore, the poster isn't reading so I was just adding to your points.