Master bedroom

Good point, I don't think I'd want a spinster of science degree and to make it sex neutral it would need to be 'people of low rank in the feudal hierarchy degree' which doesnt exactly roll off the tongue.

In computing, I'm assuming that the language is indeed linked to slavery.

I think we can keep the concept of master/slave, or an analogy of it, and yet agree that slavery was morally wrong.

Re all the house/new build stuff, I ALWAYS look at the actual measurements. I know how big some of the rooms are in our house (old, draughty), and a lot of room sizes in new builds have me 😯

I'll stick with having a Master's. It reminds me how lucky I am that I was born in an era when women can get an education. The present is sexist, but the past was moreso, and I don't want to forget that.

This isn't where 'master bedroom' comes from but I do think there is a case for removing such terminology out of respect for the descendants of slavery and to de-normalise the concept.

Just because the language has a connection to slavery, doesn't make it "racist" to use in a completely different context.

Is there actually anything wrong with describing an inanimate object as a 'master' or 'slave', depending on its function? Surely it's human slavery that we want to completely eradicate and not 'honour'; but who cares if one computer server - a bunch of metal and microchips - is designated the master and another as the slave?

Seems pretty heteronormative on the face of it.

Though Jack and Jill are usually understood as siblings, so maybe that falls under some sort of queer label after all?

The war on women goes well beyond the scope of TRAs, they are the icing on a very large cake. I see preoccupation with this kind of minor historic language as a bit of a distraction from the major language infractions around the use of woman, mother etc. Those are things I can get very worked up about.

What about penmanship? Penpersonship?

Handwriting?

I can't get my unisex briefs in a twist about this, I really can't.

Well after we win the TRA war on women do feel free to revert to ordinary patriarchal sexism and make fun of women who do cast a wider lens.

I worked for a holiday home rental company on their website - a year or so they started to list it as the 'main bedroom'. Quite rightly.

As a total aside I quite like the term 'Jack and Jill' bathroom - for a a bathroom with doors to two bedrooms. Much more common in the US

Work and workmanship are not the same thing. Like work and handiwork are not the same thing.

What about penmanship? Penpersonship?

I can't get my unisex briefs in a twist about this, I really can't.

My god, I have a masters degree and batchelors degree. I say plantation shutters and know old painters as the old masters. I would say master bedroom as well.

And so do most people in real life.

Just shoot me.

But ‘work’ and ‘workmanship’ don’t mean the same thing. Work as a noun is just the product or process of the verb ‘to work’. There is no value judgement in it, it needs an adjective to qualify it : good, bad, shoddy, painstaking etc….

Language changes and I am happy for it to do so if it decenters 'man' as the norm.

'Takes pride in excellent work' is a fine phrase.

But ‘work’ and ‘workmanship’ don’t mean the same thing. Work as a noun is just the product or process of the verb ‘to work’. There is no value judgement in it, it needs an adjective to qualify it : good, bad, shoddy, painstaking etc….

Workmanship implies some level of skill and finish, usually when unqualified signifying a degree of positive achievement. Are you going to delete ‘masterpiece’ as well? What will replace it?

Surely by deleting words and terminology we impoverish the language.

The term master bedroom had its origins in the 1920s in the US and it referred to the bedroom of the 'master'; the head of the household. I refuse to use it for its sexist connotations and use main for preference.

Don't you take pride in your workmanship? (Is that a sexist term? 🤔 ) Gah

Very funny. Most people would avoid sexist language and use 'work'. It's not hard.

but it is, as are all the other outdated sexist terms that people still use.

That's an interesting point, but we are definitely a superstitious society! Watch how many people will walk in the road to avoid going under a ladder, even if there's no one up it.
The old masters thing is separate though, I think - it's to acknowledge that there were talented women painters too.

No wait sorry workpersonship 😂 I can't even manage it when I'm trying!

Do you say 'housewife pillowcase,'?

yes I probably would (if I had any) because it's a description of the size/style.

Don't you take pride in your workmanship? (Is that a sexist term? 🤔 ) Gah

Lets try to bring personmanship into the vernacular?

Just because the language has a connection to slavery, doesn't make it "racist" to use in a completely different context.

I would say we have a "good reason" not to go along with every language change that some more sensitive people might like.

Totally agree 50+ years are a better buy than new build, because of the "snagging" thing if nothing else. What do you mean I have to list all of your fuckups after I move into my brand new dream home? Don't you take pride in your workmanship? (Is that a sexist term? 🤔 ) Gah.

(Sorry, thread utterly derailed!)

Bloody hell and i thought the ones i worked on were grim. Although one did move in to discover we hadn't installed the plumbing or the sink in the kitchen!On

Old is better if it's been around 50- 100 years it's done all its settling and any major issues should have already revealed themselves. And the ceiling heights and room sizes are better!

The newer the house the worse the construction and the smaller the plot size.

The cheap showhouse didn't even have finished skirting boards, I recall mentioning to DH that if that was the showhouse standard what were ordinary buyers going to get? We eventually bought a gorgeous Victorian maindoor terraced flat which I still regret selling.

(I remember so well because I was pregnant with my first, and had never bought before, though I had lived in new builds pretty much all my life. 1964 my family moved into a new build, which we left in 1971 for another new build, where my 90yo mum still lives. Both far superior to modern, imho)

My house building days was mid 90s so it definitely seems to have been an 80s 90s thing. I assume they still do the same stuff these days but probably even more sneakily.

DH and I looked at new builds in 1986. The "showhouse" at our (cheapest) end of the range didn't have doors fitted, in case people shut them and realised how tiny the rooms were. I believe they were doing the dinky furniture even then. The showhouse at the posh end was lovely though.