Master bedroom

It was always obvious that 'Master bedroom', like many other such descriptors arises from a gendered imbalance in power. Female equivalents to male words tend always to lose status and even becom pejorative, even when talking about socially high status titles

Master/Mistress is just one of them.

Lord/Lady is another

If somebody masterbates are they being sexist or racist?

Nah, just shit at spelling.

What if the people objecting are idiots or fools? If 95% of a group thought something was fine, and a tiny group didn't, and they didn't have a compelling argument, I don't see why anyone would feel compelled to do what they asked.

Well sure. But in the case we're discussing, can you make a compelling argument that 'master' makes more (rather than less) sense than 'main'? Hanging on to archaic terms which don't make much sense is a bit idiotic, and doing so if it upsets a minority is just bloody minded foolishness. There's no wonderful etymological heritage at risk by dumping 'master' in this context.

I don't think that's related to the word master? I think it's related to the word hand.

What if the people objecting are idiots or fools? If 95% of a group thought something was fine, and a tiny group didn't, and they didn't have a compelling argument, I don't see why anyone would feel compelled to do what they asked.

Just because someone doesn't like something doesn't mean they are being reasonable and everyone needs to accommodate without question.

If somebody masterbates are they being sexist or racist?

Ffs, just use whatever term is best suited to your buying audience, in order to sell the bloody house and cut the drama?

Master isn't gender specific

The 'master bedroom' is standard terminology which we all understand. It means the main bedroom, not that it belongs to the master of the house. Correct things that are wrong (politely) if you want but leave alone what makes sense. Baked beans should always be baked beans, not a cup of coffee, as Wittgenstein never said.

How odd. I'm an American, have bought and sold several houses, and have never heard the term "principal bedroom". And I'm in New York, not some backwater.

Thanks - I was struggling to think of the English word for it (I've really been assimilated as German!)

Should we say "Mistress bedroom"? Well, probably not.

They've been access covers for decades round here.

So if 5% of black people object to the language, and 95% of them are fine with it, you will stand with the 5%?

Why wouldn't you? - assuming the 95% didn't have a valid objection to the alternative of course.

In the specific case of 'master bedroom', given that (hopefully) the concept of 'master of the house' is obsolete, the term makes less sense than alternatives such as 'main'.

So if 5% of black people object to the language, and 95% of them are fine with it, you will stand with the 5%?

For me a manhole cover is a manhole cover I will never call it anything else. I've spent to much time down manholes over my working life to get that to change in my head

It’s fascinating that three centuries on, people still can instinctively identify the master/slave dynamic as wrong but still struggle to get on board with feminism.
Master = racism bad!
Master = sexism - oh you silly woman!

The struggle for the emancipation of women took place alongside the emancipation of slaves because the conditions were remarkably similar - both issues of couverture, meaning that both wives and slaves had no independent legal existence. Wiping out every vestige of that concept is important.

You put that so well, Brefugee.

also this.

We are (thank fuck) sensitive to things like this now. And if someone in a community that found something offensive (like the black community and "plantation" weddings, for eg) i definitely would try my very best to use non insulting and regressive language. Not only around them or within their earshot, but ever.

And a lot of people in a community - women - are now waking up to things like "master" bedroom (not one I'd thought of much so thanks to OP for bringing it up) and i would hope that everyone else would extend the same courtesy we do to other minority groups.

I'm a 2nd waver so i have been paying attention to this since the 70s. Which does mean i've had practice.

But i don't find it particularly difficult to avoid using gendered language most of the time.

(am interested in the side-discussion about academic qualifications - they need renaming. But i never say "my bachelor's is this" or "my master's is that" and if ever i do it's degree and degree. It will be interesting to see how that develops. Women have been allowed to go to uni for such a short time in the grand scheme of things)

I mean. "manhole cover" - If i hear that word now it really stands out, because they've been drain covers for years (even if not strictly accurate). Police Officer, Firefighter, and so on and so forth.

I would say "don't you have pride in the work you have produced" for example. "look at the skills involved in producing that inlaid table"

And this probably took less time to think up than the sexist examples offered earlier - most of which were terribly try-hard.

I think we can keep the concept of master/slave, or an analogy of it, and yet agree that slavery was morally wrong.

I'm not going to make assumptions about your background or skin colour but I'm more than happy to stand with anyone in the black community who disagrees with you - and I am sure there are many.

and that is lovely for you.
Those of us who would prefer to do away with outdated everyday sexism have other ideas.

I would say "don't you have pride in the work you have produced" for example. "look at the skills involved in producing that inlaid table"

What about single sex families. Do they have a mistress bedroom? (I guess not)

As we grow and understand how language affects us, we drop the harmful (even in very minor ways) and embrace the new.

Otherwise we'd still have a lot fewer female police offers than we ought to have. (for example)

If we have to remove the master/slave concept from BDSM out of racial sensitivity or whatever, this is going to irritate the gay community. (They aren't the only folks into it, yes, sure.)

Bugger that was supposed to have ediths post attached!