Caitlin Moran article 1 Jul in Guardian

Posted before I meant to. Wanted to add that this has been known and understood for years. It’s not new. But men, far from accepting feminism, much less embracing it, continue to reject it. It’s almost as though they feel that on balance the current system is better than equality with women.

That being the case, I think feminists are much better off devoting their energies to women.

When I was first exposed to feminism in the 90s there was one phrase that popped up time and again: patriarchy hurts men too.

For some reason, it doesn’t get much airtime these days but it has always resonated strongly with me. It’s the reason I don’t have much time for gotchas like the litany of ways in which men are worse off than women that Caitlin Moran was subjected to; many, if not most, items on that list relate to male behaviour or patriarchal expectations of men that men themselves buy into and many benefit from. They do not originate with women. It’s not for women to sort this out and I’m tired of reading about men’s problems, real as they undoubtedly are, as if women have some responsibility for them in the same way as male behaviour is responsible for much of what women and girls are subjected to.

I wonder if she re-wrote her first book a fifth time and the publishers politely but firmly asked her for something new, so she provided the same thing but about men?

Robert Webb's How Not To Be A Boy is very good incidentally.

Agreed. I can imagine the backlash if a man wrote a book basically saying 'women, here is your problem and how to fix it'...

I never understood why CM gets such a free pass on things. She's fucking tedious.

I wouldn't say "why is it up to women to tell men to behave", rather "Caitlin Moran needs to write a book for income, why has she decided on this subject, that would not go down well if it was a male writer telling women how to behave".

I like Moran's Friday column in the Times, in fact it's one of the reasons I subscribe. I also really liked "How To Be A Woman" and it was that book which made me engage with feminism, having been brought up with the idea that a feminist was not a good thing to be ("It's just angry women and you'll make yourself unattractive to men", to paraphrase )

But I don't see why it's on women to fix men. And if men started telling women how women should fix themselves, we'd - rightly - be up in arms.

Good article from Gabby

"Why is it up to women to tell men they must fix the terrible issues they have with homophobia, bullying, loneliness, suicide etc, and show them how to do it?"

It is not up to women to fix men and to be honest the Guardian style (I know Moran writes for the Times) pieces of the hectoring, patronising 'hey men, you are a bit rubbish but this is how you can fix yourselves' variety gets a bit wearisome after a while. I also think the 'men are crap at discussing anything outside of football and gadgets' narrative that is often served up is just as unhelpful.

Maybe Caitlin is a big supporter of trans because she thinks more biological women should become dads to follow her advice on How To Be A Great Dad.

Even The Guardian are having a go now, in the most Guardian way possible:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/07/caitlin-moran-men-talk-feelings-book-masculinity

The thing is, there are big problems facing men and boys today, like the suicide rates and the impact of internet pornography, but they’re not going to be fixed by a female Times columnist writing a book containing puns about the Archbishop of Banterbury.

I have actually enjoyed some of her interviews and columns. Her books appear contrived.

Yep, I'm sure Caitlin considers hereself a glitter person, special and blessed, outspoken and determined, inclusive and accomodating.

And I'm sure she considers all the people joining her team, y'know the male people joining the female team, to also be glittery and special and yada yada.

To be filed in the "was fun once, but now so yesterday's chip wrapper" waste paper basket.

CM is full on TWAW, she's posted about it on twitter and spoke about it in one of her books a couple years ago, I've not read anything by her since and won't. Liked her 20 years ago, she wrote one decent book, it was quite funny but she's not the brightest 🤷‍♀️

I thought it seriously juvenile

The reviews’ examples of the excruciating bit about tasting menstrual blood as being funny compared to the equally excruciating bit about banter is mystifying to me

I found How to Be A Woman excruciating. I didn't finish it.

You're right of course @NatashaDancing. I did actually enjoy bits of How to be a woman but I don't think she's been funny for a very long time. Not read her column for years.

It's not an accurate review.

There are about five funny newspaper columnists in Britain today, and Moran is one of them

No she isn't.

in her 2011 memoir-polemic How to Be a Woman. Moran wrote a sizzler. It was funny

No she didn't and it isn't funny.

I think the first few paragraphs, where she says she assumed white men were all doing so well that it is ok to metaphorically beat up on them a bit, says it all.

Not very observant.

Sorry but this made me laugh.

Gosh! That was brutal. And also, very funny. But feel a bit sorry for her, now.

Here's an absolutely excoriating review of Caitlin's new book

www.newstatesman.com/culture/2023/07/has-caitlin-moran-met-man

it amused me

Bit of disclosure and honesty here.

I'm a bloke. MH issues for 17 yrs now. I've been part of a mens talk charity for years and run my own business set around MH presentations and discussions.

Things are changing, slowly, for guys. They/ we are opening up and the subject matter of MH is becoming much more common.

BUT!

The stereotype that girls and women are much better at talking misses the point.

@75% of suicides are male. @25% female. We cannot, and I will not, allow that to be ignored.

Women struggle just as much. That's factual, and the seemingly endless charge(often click driven on social media) to talk about male MH risks edging female MH from the discussions.

Some of the so called leaders of mens MH campaigns do nothing more than trot out stolen quotes and memes, and knowingly take advantage of vulnerable people.

This is about society and about US. That really matters.

Men need Caitlin Moran like a hole in the head. Stay in your lane Caitlin. We don't need men telling us how to woman and they do not need you.