Has anyone seen that TFL are wanting to name the London overground lines?

JK Rowling
Julie Bindel
Julie Burchill
Helen Joyce
Magdalen Burns
Kathleen Stock

Can’t wait for the new branding!
(apart from it will probably be that fella breastfeeding again, as apparently he’s such a good ‘mum’)

I meant that tube drivers are an effective monopoly. If they strike (and even though it’s usually not all lines every time) they are basically putting the whole system out of action and for most users there’s no likely alternative way of going to work.

It is also true that WFH, or its possibility, blunts the strikes a bit these days. But it’s still a near-monopoly on the biggest single means of travel in London. Much the same can be said for the trains. That’s why mass transit suffers from so many strikes historically.

The NHS is certainly a monopoly, or at least functionally so. But millions don’t pour in and out of it every day as a matter of routine and daily reliance. The NHS strikes are potent because of sympathy for the caring professions, and fear.

because it’s an effective monopoly.

Its not a monopoly. The many rail companies supply an essential service.

The NHS is a monopoly, and striking doesn't seem to help their staff.

If you tried to do a bit of googling you will see that even enthusiasts say all of the things you say are possible are years off.

Sure, it’s a long-term thing. But some tube lines are part-automated already and the in-built potential for driverless operation of new stock is a requirement, as I understand it. There’s a Metro line in Paris that operates driverless trains.

There are big costs with the tube going driverless, that’s true. But in some respects the costs are weighted against reliability of the service and the attractiveness of London for businesses.

I don’t blame the unions for opposing it. They’re there to defend their members’ jobs. But they must expect that others will have a different view when they’re affected by strikes. As to which…

It amazes me sometimes (well, it doesn't) how people who are perfectly willing to sell their houses for whatever they can get are ready to criticise essential and very skilled workers for selling their labour for what the market will bear.

But if a market’s artificial - like a monopoly of supply or even companies colluding and price fixing - don’t you think there’s cause for complaint?

I have no problem with workers combining or striking in many situations. The special position of employment and the need to address the asymmetric power in the relationship has been recognised for a very long time. But I think it tips over into a form of extortion when a sector knows it can rig the pay market because it’s an effective monopoly.

It amazes me sometimes (well, it doesn't) how people who are perfectly willing to sell their houses for whatever they can get are ready to criticise essential and very skilled workers for selling their labour for what the market will bear.

Driverless trains have been used on the DLR

If you tried to do a bit of googling you will see that even enthusiasts say all of the things you say are possible are years off.

The DLR was designed for driverless trains.

Most of our country is still living off the work done by Victorians, whether roads, rail, sewers, housing.

And by the way if drivers have been able to raise their wages through strikes it just shows they are providing an essential service. Otherwise their strike wouldn't have had an impact.

Unlike the staff on P&O(?) who were sacked in breach of contract and replaced with zero hours workers.

Like to see someone who worked in an Amazon warehouse taking over control of a train.

Apart from the fact that the level of salary is raised by level of responsibility and the consequences when they fail. It isn't just pushing a few buttons.

Haha, so true! But am in Scotland so can't blame UK gov entirely

I agree about the mayors.

But I’m baffled by the snobbery comment.

We don’t need train drivers any more. Driverless trains are just as safe. Driverless trains have been used on the DLR for decades. If a job becomes extinct - like town cryers and lamplighters - it’s not snobbery to say that we shouldn’t be required to continue to rely on people doing these jobs.

It’s been possible for 30 years to taxi, fly, land and park a passenger plane by computers alone, with no safety risk.

I think you are confusing the repetative tasks that auto pilot can carry out compared to the skills needed to carry out tasks that require split second decisions based on sudden change in circumstances. Do you really think a computer could have landed a plane on the Hudson river?

Added to which who with any sense would hand over their safely when travelling to a computer given the level of sophistication of hacking? Not forgetting the NHS and some councils in the UK being held to ransom, there was the region in the US that lost all it electricity because the computer supposedly automating supply got hacked.

It seems to me that a lot of these comments are based on snobbery about what are considered blue collar jobs getting the salaries near the same as some pen pusher in Whitehall.

If you want to have a go at inflated salaries, look at some the money being taken from rate payers to go to totallly unecessary Mayors, many in poverty stricken boroughs.

Oh no! Not the provably safer option of not employing ASLEF or RMT members to drive trains! Like on the DLR.

You’ll really upset people now.

It’s been possible for 30 years to taxi, fly, land and park a passenger plane by computers alone, with no safety risk. But we need drivers on trains…

Or invest in driverless trains.

How DO you pronounce Theydon Bois...?

OK, sack them all, recruit people on minimum wage, and then when we have a Harrow and Wealdstone or a Moorgate, deny all responsibility and try to pin the blame elsewhere? Like Tories always do?

Not sure why the issue of underground train drivers has come up, but they seem to be in line with salaries paid by various national rail lines.

Achieved by the same approach to striking.

Not sure why the issue of underground train drivers has come up, but they seem to be in line with salaries paid by various national rail lines.

Personally I would have thought they would get more because of the work conditions ie being underground all day (apart from the few lines that go outside of the inner London sprawl).

Not forgetting that many trains no longer have guards, so the driver has over all responsibility for the safety of passengers.

Another factor, and really unpleasant to think about, is the number of suicides each year by people jumping in front of trains. Apart from the family of the person who died, the impact on drivers is long lasting. And even if as a driver it never happens to you, at every turn or tunnel entrance, at the back of your mind this must be something that preys on your mind. Apparently there are over 250 suicides each year on railtracks, and around 40 of these are on London underground.

No. And?

Do you ever have views on the work and rewards of merchant bankers and, if so, have you ever been one?

Makes no sense to me. They already have names.

Have you ever driven a train?

I’m struggling to notice any knowledge in anyone working at my station. Their answer to anything you ask is invariably “I don’t know”.

Yeah…

Oh FFS. Decent wages is one thing. Artificially high wages based on the threat of nuisance by causing disruption is something else.

Knowledge of the railway, and railway ways of doing things, perhaps. This is not exactly widespread.

Experienced station staff? What exact experience makes someone who works at a station more suited to a train driver job than an outside candidate?

It’s also the final job on that promotion ladder. TFL try to recruit their drivers internally from experienced station staff.

Bus driver: training is about 6 to 8 weeks. Tube driver: six to twelve months.