Hospital prayer room for gravely ill children plastered with LGBT flags

Others have made points about association of idea - here's my two penn'orth.

St Thomas' hospital in London is the one right opposite the Houses of Parliament & Big Ben, so on the south side of Westminster Bridge, near the old GLC building, the London Eye etc etc. All very iconic.

When the women's health department (as it was then called, god knows what they may have been obliged to rename it by now) was rebuilt 20+ years ago, the decision was made to site the SANDS (sudden neonatal death) unit on the opposite side of the building from the HoP, & Big Ben, the bridge, the river etc. precisely because they didn't want patients on the SANDS unit for ever after associating those famous images with what was possibly worst time of their life.

And here we are, with a famous children's hospital appearing to want to have families associate the alphabet soup with trauma. Which goes to show that the chaplain knows nothing of human nature and should be considering their future. As should whoever permitted this monstrous self-indulgent behaviour in the first place.

So “I am so very sorry your three year old child is dying, but to make you feel better isn’t it wonderful that someone you have never met but who has been caught up in a ridiculous campaign of disinformation promoted by cynics, feels joyful today knowing that they will not be misgendered by accident should they ever enter this space.”

To be honest, I don't like it being a prayer room either. Or spiritual care. The one at our local hospital is called a "Contemplation Space"

My DH would probably describe me as a left wing nutjob. Probably fair enough at times, I do get pretty heated about stuff (present topic included).

To be fair though there are right wing nutjobs. There is also right wing non-nut jobs. Just as there are left wing nut jobs and left wing non nutty types. And the mildly nutty but not full squirrel poo levels.

It says that I think that many people on the far right are mentally compromised in one way or another, sure (not talking about mental illness, I wouldn't use a flippant term like that about mental illness). Nothing more or less than that. But this is off-topic now so let's stop.

Sorry. "Far right nut jobs". Still says more about you than them.

I am sorry, but I said far right specifically, not "right wing". The far right are not just people whose politics I disagree with, I am not talking centre right or Tories, much as I have little in common with them and wouldn't want to break bread with them. I mean the real far right, like fascists, MRA, science deniers, some sections of USA evangelicals etc. That's who I meant. I'd still say nutjobs as a shorthand. And I still find myself on the same side of them in the trans culture war, which is not something I ever thought would happen.

What a disgrace. I feel so sorry for families going there in desperate need of solace or a few minutes of peace, and facing what is now a highly politicised display.

Thankyou, that was a worthwhile ten minutes. Not that I expect it to make a difference, I imagine my thoughtful responses ( they were actually) will be deleted because they are bound to upset who ever is reading them and make them feel actually threatened and unloved. All I said was that I imagine LGB parents with a sick child have more to worry about than misplaced pronouns and stereotypical manifestations declaring other peoples mythical gender identity.

If someone describes people whose politics they don't agree with as "right-wing nut jobs" that tells me all I need to know about that person.

I'd rip it down

So consider for a minute whether they are really 'far right nut jobs' or just sensible people who think for themselves who happen to be 'centre right' rather than 'centre left.' Some of us even switch sides as we age.
'Far right' is just an insult used by the left and vice versa.
Free speech does tend to be more of a right wing feature and as we have all learnt from TQ+ overreach, free speech is important or no one can fight back against this widespread institutional capture. I will vote Conservative at the next election on free speech alone even though they have been crap.

Correct, the only campaigns or causes visible in hospitals should be ones to do with specifically supporting people served by the hospital, fundraising for equipment etc. Not politics and culture wars.

THIS get politics out of our schools and hospitals.

Nail on the head.

I'm homosexual. These flags don't signal 'acceptance' to me.

They signal 'you have no right to exclude men from your body, and we mean harm and hate towards homosexuals'.

It's not an 'accepting' sign to me at all, it's an actively threatening one and I loathe being near one and mistrust anyone carrying one. Either they have no idea what the movement has become (and I was marching for it in the days when it still actually meant something for homosexuals) or they know and are anti homosexuals because their homosexuality is a threat to people's identity validations. <Insert rape, death threats and assault here>. The last person I would come out to these days is anyone waving a rainbow flag.

keyboardkat, I would have presented them per rectum!

I think I would have hauled the flags down and presented them to the CEO or whoever is in charge there. Only way.

I think there should be a silent protest by people at the hospital with an interest, with at least two people praying there at any time, not "chilling out", and accidentally removing a flag as they leave, in the manner of the "penguins" in Stalag Luft 3, and then handing them in at reception, neatly folded and bagged, with a printed statement that they thought someone had left junk in the chapel. I wonder how the other chaplains are taking it.

My point, clumsily made is that the hospital have sanctioned this space. If the hospital want to give over space in their estate to a room that's dedicated to all things 'pride' then that shouldn't come at the expense of a much needed and valued sanctuary space.

Personally, I don't think such a space is needed at a hospital at all. I was just presenting the argument that if the hospital do think it's needed - they should make arrangements for that rather than allowing a staff member with dubious intentions to hijack the hospital chapel.

As PPs have said, hospitals have moved to having multifaith prayer rooms (through some have retained chapels as well) that are essentially neutral spaces design-wise to [try to] ensure everyone feels welcome in them. (I really think the Trust that manages my care ought to rethink the listing of the “Shabbat Cupboard” though. They mean they keep stuff for holding a Shabbat Dinner - including some food - in a cupboard in the multifaith room. Unfortunately, they instead give the impression they go round stuffing Jewish patients into said cupboard for duration Shabbat 🤦‍♀️)

Putting out so many flags the Shankill looks amateurish in vexillological terms stops the space from being neutral & welcoming. The chaplain completely repurposed the room, which should never have been allowed to happen. Anyone Senior hearing “btw, I’ve changed the spiritual space to a ‘chill out zone’” should have stopped it before it could start. I’m surprised there’s apparently only the one chaplain there too: seems a strange set-up for a large hospital.

My kids schools too. These places would never push religious symbols, but they seem happy to push this.

I dunno, I think it is very educational that (a) most TRSOHers are magically absent from this thread and (b) the desperate obfuscatory bullshit displayed by the one TRSOHer who has bothered to try and justify this.

It no longer surprises me when we have posters who come on to threads and simply cannot accept that a display of flags and symbols as has been done here, even blocking the window view to stone garden meant to enable meditation and peace, is not appropriate. The same posters jump on threads and deride posters for wrongthink constantly.

The hypocrisy is very clear. It seems that any discussion that shows a situation that has been mismanaged or has shown the unthinkingness or the harm that following ideological thinking can or does result in is to be derided. And those people who are causing harm, they are righteous and never to said to have caused harm.

It is just not possible to some people that those people can cause harm so it must be that everyone posting is bigoted, or hateful or just ignorant.

It can never be anything else based on deeply held preconceived ideals and no critical thinking ability.