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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

PCOS and devastated to be called intersex

232 replies

kbana · 28/06/2023 19:11

I’m typing this through tears but just need to write it down to try and get it out of my head. Sorry if it seems long or disjointed but I’m in a bit of a state.

I hold GC views but keep these to myself as I feel afraid to speak out in case I’m called a bigot/TERF. I don’t believe that a man can become a woman but I would use people’s chosen pronouns to be polite.

I feel strongly that male-bodied people should not be able to access female spaces (including changing rooms and toilets). One of my very good friends from my university days is extremely supportive of trans rights and was ranting to me this afternoon about women’s toilets being for all women and not just females. I would normally ignore these comments to avoid arguments as she can get very heated. This time though I decided to explain (calmly and reasonably) why I didn’t agree.

My friend said that she found it astonishing that I would take that position “when many people would consider me intersex” and pointed out that I never question my own right to use the women’s loos. I asked her what she meant and she said that because I have PCOS, most TRAs and some doctors would not call me female and would include me in the intersex category. She said that I should have more sympathy for people with gender dysphoria because like them, I try to change my body to fit with my belief that I am female by taking medication to give me periods and reduce hair growth.

I tried to argue that there are thousands of women with PCOS and that they all have XX chromosomes and are female. I also pointed out that the medication is to bring back my periods, which I would have biologically if it wasn’t for my hormonal imbalance. She just kept arguing despite seeing that I was getting tearful and said that if the thousands of women with PCOS were correctly considered intersex, it would break the idea that intersex is an extremely rare group. She said that society avoids categorising PCOS as intersex to maintain the idea of two fixed sexes and encourages people with PCOS to medicate so that they fit better into the “female binary”.

I was so upset to have my sex questioned and told her so, but she just replied that is how trans people feel. Although she may have wanted to hurt me because of my GC view, she genuinely seemed to think that having PCOS means I am intersex and that my treatment for PCOS is basically to reduce my gender dysphoria so that I feel more female.

I’m not really sure what I’m asking for here but I hoped that MNers on this topic who are better informed than me can help me articulate why her view of PCOS as intersex is wrong and reassure me that I correct in believing that I am fully female (I can’t believe I even had to write that last bit). I am pretty sure that our friendship is over so I doubt I’ll have this argument with her again but it would still help me to know exactly why her thinking is wrong.

I am devastated to have lost her friendship and to have been made to feel less than female because of my health condition. I also don’t understand why she is so supportive of trans people choosing their gender and yet wants to tell me which category I’m really in. It is offensive and upsetting.

If you got to the end of this, thank you for reading. I hope I don’t sound like I’ve made this is up -frankly, I find it hard to believe too. The most upsetting part is that even though I am almost convinced she is wrong, it has still planted a seed of doubt because it plays on my insecurities about being hairier etc than most other women.

Thank you for any advice.

OP posts:
JanesBlond · 28/06/2023 21:20

PCOS diagnosis requires other conditions with similar symptoms to be ruled out. Does your friend think hyperthyroidism, Cushing’s syndrome or ovarian cancer make someone intersex? Or being from an ethnic background that predisposes them to more body hair? Or anorexia? Presumably not because that would be (even more) insane.

highame · 28/06/2023 21:20

I hope you feel cheered by all these comments Op. Take care and remember, your friend didn't take the time to educate herself about your condition and instead of understanding, she chose to jump into a debate she is ill equipped to be a part of.

daytriptovulcan · 28/06/2023 21:19

If that fanatic becomes an ex friend I guess life just got a little easier...she sounds hurtful and vile.

crumpet · 28/06/2023 21:19
  1. she is not a good friend
  2. she is an arse
  3. she actually doesn’t know what she is talking about
  4. only females can get pcos
  5. she is an arse
  6. she is an arse
SmartHome · 28/06/2023 21:18

Anyone that thinks that having cysts on your ovaries, which you've had since a couple of weeks after your parents conceived you, makes you any different to me or any other female is, frankly, very, very stupid.

I think you need to write this person off as too dumb to be firends with, and try not to even give them head space.

Where has this stupid (in a crowded field) idea that PCOS is a DSD (formerly knows as intersex) condition come from? It's just nonsensical. You don't even develop PCOS until after puberty. Just .... DUMB.

Faffertea · 28/06/2023 21:18

She’s also being offensive to people with DSDs who do not like the term intersex. And all of those people are male or female with a medical condition.

Faffertea · 28/06/2023 21:15

Your ‘friend’ is not a friend. And she’s talking out her arse.

Only women have PCOS. And it is probably part of a wider metabolic syndrome (similarities with Type 2 Diabetes due to insulin resistance).

I’ve never once considered a diagnosis of PCOS in any of my male patients.

(I’m a GP)

DarkDayforMN · 28/06/2023 21:15

Your friend was being cruel on purpose. She knew what she was saying was awful and hurtful towards you. Dedicated genderist devotees believe being cruel and awful to “TERFs” is permissible and virtuous.

And she must have drunk an awful lot of the koolaid if she’s saying stuff like “PCOS is an intersex condition” - that’s advanced genderology that only people who’ve had a lot of practice believing six impossible things before breakfast can say with a straight face.

So your friend is terminally online as well as a horrible person, I think you’ve only seen the tip of the iceberg of her insanity. Good riddance.

Vintagecreamandcottagepie · 28/06/2023 21:14

People's brains are falling out their arses. That's the only conclusion I can come to.

Sorry this was said to you.

NutellaEllaElla · 28/06/2023 21:13

namitynamechange · 28/06/2023 21:12

And I know it's your not you're. I've let everyone down.😞

Not as much as OPs friend has let herself and her side down....but close, we have high standards for grammar after all Grin

itsmylife7 · 28/06/2023 21:12

Your friend is a fucking idiot and I'm really sorry she made you feel bad about yourself.

namitynamechange · 28/06/2023 21:12

And I know it's your not you're. I've let everyone down.😞

namitynamechange · 28/06/2023 21:11

False equivalency Like when gay people object to hardcore kink in front of children at pride and get told "well lots of people think you're 'lifestyle' is a fetish and wrong so you should be on our side" .
It says far more about the person making that arguement than you.

DSDaisy · 28/06/2023 21:09

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

JanesBlond · 28/06/2023 21:08

Haven’t RTFT but echo the chorus that your friend is nuts and knows nothing about sex, PCOS, or how to be a decent human being. PCOS is now thought to be related to diabetes with insulin resistance in the ovaries causing the hormonal imbalance (which by the way is often high oestrogen, testosterone isn’t always implicated) for many patients. Women with PCOS have fully developed female organs, it’s nothing like a DSD.

Woman2023 · 28/06/2023 21:08

senua · 28/06/2023 19:15

Your friend is batshit.
PCOS stands for Polycystic ovary syndrome (not that you need me to tell you that). OVARIES. Only the FEMALE has ovaries. You are female. You are not intersex.

Batshit is definitely the correct word. No men have PCOS, it's a condition only women suffer.

DSDaisy · 28/06/2023 21:07

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

JazzyBBG · 28/06/2023 21:07

Wow. I'm so upset for you. I also have PCOS and can clearly remember a doctor saying to me "don't worry it doesn't mean you'll turn into a man!" (When explaining about the testosterone).

Your friend is not a friend. She's batshit and to be honest pretty evil. But what the fuck is in it for her? Why would a woman who presumably also identifies as a woman take this as a hill to die on? What does it have to do with her and why does she want to do such a disservice to herself? The critical thinking has well and truly left the building.

Don't give her the time of day.

NutellaEllaElla · 28/06/2023 21:07

God OP I am so sorry. That is NO friend, what a crazy bitch! You're well rid of her.

Other people have said it better than me. If she didn't think you were a woman, she wouldn't have dared treat you so badly let's face it.

timenowplease · 28/06/2023 21:02

Jesus - that's the stupidest thing I've heard in a while.

Hugs to you OP xx

FlopsiesAngrySandwich · 28/06/2023 21:02

That was disgustingly cruel of her, and I'm sorry you had to hear such utter rubbish directed at you.

Chestnutlover · 28/06/2023 21:01

Some friend.

FrontEnd · 28/06/2023 21:00

She's thick as mince...I'm sorry you were subjected to her cruel bullshit. Horrible, ignorant behaviour.

OhcantthInkofaname · 28/06/2023 20:56

Stop crying right now. Unless you're crying tears of joy because you just lost a blooming idiot for a friend. She's not a friend. The O in PCOS stands for ovaries. Females have ovaries.

Dente · 28/06/2023 20:56

Your friend is bonkers