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Calling medical professionals - 'assigning' sex at birth

47 replies

MmePoppySeedDefage · 27/06/2023 19:19

There's an article in today's Times about medical matters, in which Dr Porter talks about sex assigned at birth. Someone in the comments asked if this was what actually happens, ie it's not ' observed' and he's replied:

Assign has always been the legal term - as long as I remember - it's what we write in the notes at birth based (normally) on external genitalia. I say normally because external genitalia are not always a reliable indicator of being male or female. You can look like a boy and be a female genetically, and vice versa. Rare but happens.Gender is more complex than biological sex - not least due to social constructs.

Is this right?

OP posts:
SinnerBoy · 27/06/2023 20:57

That's reminded me, I helped our Ukrainian refugees get registered at the doctor's, 2 weeks ago. The forms said: Gender - M / F

BluebellBlueballs · 27/06/2023 20:47

Just started a new job part of which is doing occupational health referrals, the portal asks for 'women including trans women' ie they are lumping biological MEN with women for a medical assessment. Boils my piss it really does.

Counciltelly · 27/06/2023 20:44

I work in Scotland and your medical notes now say gender not sex at the top. Fucks me right off.

FrancescaContini · 27/06/2023 20:41

RoseslnTheHospital · 27/06/2023 19:34

Is this Dr Mark Porter, the showbiz GP? Since when did he last attend a birth and write anything in a baby's notes?

Good point

Faffertea · 27/06/2023 20:38

Nope never ‘assigned’ a baby their sex or seen it in the records of what must by now be 100+ baby checks I’ve done.

NecessaryScene · 27/06/2023 20:37

What's amusing is that proponents of this stuff will wibble on about how this "assigning" is so complicated due to 24% of the population being intersex or whatever.

Which then poses the question - why do you then claim this ever-so-unreliable "assignment" at birth is a synonym for actual sex, and try to substitute it in when people are trying to talk about actual sex?

For example in the above - "non-binary people assigned female at birth". No, you mean actually female non-binary people. What they were unreliably(?) "assigned" is irrelevant.

ReeseWitherfork · 27/06/2023 20:07

HipTightOnions · 27/06/2023 19:37

Gender is more complex than biological sex - not least due to social constructs.

Why is he on about gender when he's been asked about sex?

Yeah seriously how the fuck does gender come into this?

Abra1t · 27/06/2023 20:05

Sorry, I pasted in wrong comment on thread—muddled.

RoseslnTheHospital · 27/06/2023 20:01

@Abra1t how does your extract relate to the extract in the OP?

Abra1t · 27/06/2023 19:59

He was quoting:

No. I meant what I wrote. Or as CRUK and screening authorities might explain in more words, those who may benefit might include:
trans men and non-binary people assigned female at birth who have not had an operation to remove the breasts (bilateral mastectomy). And trans women and non-binary people assigned male at birth and who have taken feminising hormones.
No need to shoot the messenger.

Wishiwasatailor · 27/06/2023 19:54

BluebellBlueballs · 27/06/2023 19:35

There's like 0.001% of babies born with ambiguous genitalia or xy chromosomes but no willy.

But we don't see six fingered gloves on sale in respect of the very rare cases of six fingered people.

off topic but I used to work in a hospital where we had a weekly surgical list which consisted of babies born with an extra finger or toe….I was surprised how many we saw

Kucinghitam · 27/06/2023 19:48

HipTightOnions · 27/06/2023 19:37

Gender is more complex than biological sex - not least due to social constructs.

Why is he on about gender when he's been asked about sex?

This!

HaveYouHeardOfARoadAtlas · 27/06/2023 19:43

As someone who’s worked on a labour ward for twenty years I have never heard the term “assigned” spoken of or documented. The computer system says “sex” and there are three options. Male, female, indeterminate.

in contemporaneous handheld notes at the actual birth I would document “ x time, NVD (normal vaginal delivery) of live infant female in good condition. Or similar

HipTightOnions · 27/06/2023 19:37

Gender is more complex than biological sex - not least due to social constructs.

Why is he on about gender when he's been asked about sex?

BluebellBlueballs · 27/06/2023 19:35

There's like 0.001% of babies born with ambiguous genitalia or xy chromosomes but no willy.

But we don't see six fingered gloves on sale in respect of the very rare cases of six fingered people.

RoseslnTheHospital · 27/06/2023 19:34

Is this Dr Mark Porter, the showbiz GP? Since when did he last attend a birth and write anything in a baby's notes?

GodessOfThunder · 27/06/2023 19:31

It is correct - sorry if it wasn’t what you wanted to hear

MrsFinkelstein · 27/06/2023 19:29

No. Sex is observed at birth. I worked as a Midwife for 11yrs, never came across a baby born intersex, nor heard of any colleagues who did. It's a vanishingly small % of births per year.

"Male" or "Female" was all that was documented. Nothing about assigned.

RoseslnTheHospital · 27/06/2023 19:28

Certainly when you register a baby's birth to get a birth certificate, the birth certificate says Sex. The baby's red book medical record says Sex M/F. The wristband put on babies in hospital say the same.

Mushroo · 27/06/2023 19:26

It seems very arbitrary language.

I’ve had blood tests done during pregnancy and know my baby is xx chromosomes. Will her sex still be ‘assigned’ I wonder…

RoseslnTheHospital · 27/06/2023 19:24

I seriously doubt that midwives or doctors write "assigned male" or "assigned female" in the notes.

MostlyBlueberryFlavoured · 27/06/2023 19:21

Yep.

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