Disney went woke now they're going broke

Woke is normally a term used by those who don't want to think about whether their own attitude is actually 'ok' or not.

I just go by what the grandchildren like. I'm not Disney target market. If they watch it over and over, enjoy the film, sing the songs ask for and play with the merchandise then it's a success.

Disney has ramped up production of movies and TV shows for its streaming platform. My theory is that they've gone too far, they are re-hashing old classics and stories with few new ideas, and the quality has inevitably reduced.

I don't bother going to see a Disney flick at the cinema anymore, I just wait for is to come out on Disney+.

There is still some quality there...I loved West Side Story and Dopesick brought out all the correct emotions. I liked A Small Light too. But the Star Wars franchise has had it and sadly Marvel is going the same way (though Secret Invasion Isn't That Bad).

I didn't like the little mermaid remake cause it was shite, not because Ariel was black. I don't really like any of the remakes, much preferring the animation.

I dislike diversity for diversity's sake though. If it doesn't feel natural, then I don't like it, otherwise I don't care.

Disney have so many issues, not least that they’re literally just pumping out everything and anything now and fans are getting tired of them acting like it’s all blockbuster material. A huge problem is that people can’t keep up anymore especially eg where they put a spin off on Disney, the film in the cinema but then the spin off includes details we needed for the movie and so people say ‘ I just don’t bother anymore’ So it’s nothing to do with being representative and realistic, which they needed to be- I for one was fed up of how white everything was- it’s just they’ve lost sight of a plan

I find the idea of making them non-Hawaiian so odd? I guess it's not necessary to the story, but it seems to rather transplant it?

The lead characters are all Hawaiians. But they are white or fair skinned Hawaiians who don't resemble the characters in the original animation, who were drawn to resemble the more ethnic native Hawaiians. So now the debate is about colorism.

Now I think they should have cast more ethnic looking Hawaiians...but since it's a supposed good thing to cast a black actress in an film based on a historically Danish Fairy Tale it allows for colour blind acting in all capacities and so people need to think carefully whether colour blindism in casting is ultimately a good thing. It can be used both ways. In my book it isn't, it dissolves culture. Make new stories featuring women, ethnic people, gay people etc. People will go to see good films.

I find the idea of making them non-Hawaiian so odd? I guess it's not necessary to the story, but it seems to rather transplant it?

I don't personally mind about the casting of the Little Mermaid and it's quite a reasonable approach to that particular story. But I also understand why someone might feel that a film like that should reflect the place the story came from. And the fact is that is rigorously enforced in certain cases with non-white roles, so I can see why they feel there is something of a double standard.

Something like Lord of the Rings, on the other hand, was very deeply tied to a particular culture and its history and literature. It was meant to be a kind of myth specifically tied to European models and especially to England, and Tolkien had a deep history of the place which the stories reflect, they are connected to real elements of history and languages too. He spent a lot of time creating a world with a kind of coherence, ideologically and otherwise.

People who claim that it's just all made up and so sex, what people look like, etc, do not matter, clearly don't understand what the books were about, or for.If you want a differernt kind of story they should bloody well write it themselves, or choose one of the other thousands that have already been published.

Oh My God, they can have George MacDonald over my cold dead body!

Or you could decide to understand that one person's comment reflects one person's view and not extrapolate wildly and wrongly from a single comment about the views of others

She will get a soul for selflessly helping others. That is a common Christian moral and not necessarily a bad one. And if you're inclined to say it's directed at women and therefore still anti-feminist, I'd say that the central example of self-sacrifice in Christianty is, well... Christ.

"A black Mermaid during the time of slavery could add an extra dimension to the original story, giving an extra reason for her invisibility to the prince."

There was a massive White slave trade as well. And indeed the word "slave" is literally Slav. One reason there are fewer descendents of White slaves is because Arab and Turkish slave owners castrated male slaves. I'm posting this not to diminish the tragedy of Black slave experiences but to counter this idea that it is somehow a Black thing. It is certainly promoted as a Black only thing but the historical reality is a great deal more... diverse.

The Little Mermaid closely follows the 'Angel of the Hearth' and Victorian ideals of self sacrificing women. It really is a product of its time and I don't think it can be read as a cautionary tale, seeing as she will ascend to heaven for being a good 'christian woman'. She will acquire a soul. Therefore it's a reward.

@AmaryllisNightAndDay
"In theory as a feminist I suppose I should like the "feisty" Disney Little Mermaid but the original Hans Andersen story is not about adventure it's about total self-sacrifice to a hopeless love. The Little Mermaid is brave and beautiful but she gives up everything including her own life and she doesn't even get her man at the end. It's nearly as un-feminist as you can get (OK, "Patient Griselda" is worse) but it's still a beautiful story and you can take a lesson from it about how self-destructive romantic love can be, if you want to."

The story is unfeminist if you think the moral is that you should throw away everything you have on a hopeless love and die of it. If you understand that a lot of these tales are cautionary, then it's not. Nor is the moral of Hansel and Gretel that parents should abandon their children or that gluttony is a positive.

Not talking about you specifically but I have never understood how some people cannot understand that because a character exists in a story, that doesn't mean you're supposed to emulate that character.

OH and Peter Pan was a yawnfest too

I'm a granny quite enjoyed little mermaid as did five grandchildren. Light year bored them rigid. They're too young for marvel.

Family went to Disneyland in January it was quiet and much more expensive. Also looking quite tired in places. They've over spent in some areas, trying to claw back money elsewhere.

I'm ticked off they haven't done a Moana 2 though

Is it not as simple as the energy giants all over the world are fucking everybody and we just have no money to go to the cinema!

Shoe horning random relationships, various ethnicities and situations like it's a bingo card is a prime example of how NOT to do it.

Yes, and this way of doing it is arguably in its way quite discriminatory / racist / homophobic because it's not a real part of the story, it's just a box ticking exercise and quite transparently so. Agree Strange World was awful.

Minor point - but the box office receipts are not what ends up in the film studios bank account. The cinemas and distributors obviously take their cut. Usually the deal is the opening week the studio takes 90% of the ticket sales but this then quickly drops to 50% or less as time goes on... This is why the opening weekend ticket sales are reported as so important.

So the break even point for Little Mermaid for example cost $250 million to make, plus another estimated $140 million to advertise and the distributors will take another large bite out every sale over the whole of June sales. Means the break even point is at least $500 million. Last report shows it has almost reached that amount: https://www.boxofficemojo.com/title/tt5971474/ and sales have naturally tailed off (and worth less and less to Disney).
As one of the big releases this year to barely break even, then it is not great for Disney, which is reflected in how much investors think their company is worth (essentially flat over 2023, and less than half from the peak in Nov '21). Times are not good for Disney and the current expectations of Indiana 5 are very poor considering the gigantic break even point.

this is a light hearted story for children and black children and adults want and need to see themselves depicted in contexts other than slavery, pain and struggle.

If "this" is "a Disney film" then yes, it should be a lighthearted story for children and should depict the audience as they prefer to see themselves. I just wish they had left the Little Mermaid alone.

They could have had George Macdonald's Princess and the Goblin / Princess and Curdie instead. They're very visual and they're chockful of Victorian values so no-one would mind what Disney did to them

This 'woke to broke' thing is interesting. Nike's sales actually went up after right wingers targeted them over their support for racial justice campaigns. Bud Light suffered after they were castigated for seeming to support Dylan Mulvaney (a 'transgender influencer'). Some experts say this is to some extent to do with their initial flip-flopping when the fuss began - they stayed silent on the issue for several days, and then the CEO CEO said in the firm "never intended to be part of a discussion that divides people". Many people saw this as waffling, and people wondered exactly what they stood for. If they really supported Mulvaney, they would have stood up for her/him/them, but they backed down. Both sides then saw that as two-faced and inauthentic.

The original Little Mermaid story reminds me in a sad way of young people transitioning. Willing to pay the price in any amount of suffering, leaving their homes, ignoring their family's pleas, getting evil medicine from the witch that changes their bodies, all in pursuit of something they can't ever have.

In the original story to a point yes. Good analogy!

But don't forget there's also a christian element of the mermaid striving for an immortal soul at the end. She doesn't just become foam on the sea.

From wiki: Her body dissolves into foam, but instead of ceasing to exist, she feels the warm sun and discovers that she has turned into a luminous and ethereal earthbound spirit, a daughter of the air. As the Little Mermaid ascends into the atmosphere, she is greeted by other daughters, who tell her she has become like them because she strove with all her heart to obtain an immortal soul. Because of her selflessness, she is given the chance to earn her own soul by doing good deeds for humankind for 300 years, and she will one day rise up into Heaven.

A black Mermaid during the time of slavery could add an extra dimension to the original story, giving an extra reason for her invisibility to the prince.

Whilst I think that would be interesting in a far more dark and adult film that is closer to the original tale in its message, this is a light hearted story for children and black children and adults want and need to see themselves depicted in contexts other than slavery, pain and struggle. Slavery isn't the be all of black history. Far from it. Besides it's a fantasy set in a kingdom and time that doesn't exist.

There was a proposal about this, and on the forums I was on the idea received quite a lot of push back from ethnic parents and I agree with them.

And thank you @DemiColon for suggesting it's a cautionary tale, it hadn't occurred to me to see it that way. Now I shan't feel guilty about liking it!

The story of the Little Mermaid is cautionary, it shows what happens when you believe in that and live it out, in a mythologized kind of form.

Yes, that's true. The prince never pays any attention to the Mermaid at all. A black Mermaid during the time of slavery could add an extra dimension to the original story, giving an extra reason for her invisibility to the prince.

The original Little Mermaid story reminds me in a sad way of young people transitioning. Willing to pay the price in any amount of suffering, leaving their homes, ignoring their family's pleas, getting evil medicine from the witch that changes their bodies, all in pursuit of something they can't ever have.