Parents kept in the dark by teachers about their 16 year old daughter’s medical transition

Again I don't know the details here ( do others ?) But I highly doubt it was the teachers who put this child in touch with the medic. Much more likely to have been the voluntary organisation. But actually yr11s can use the Internet just like anyone else.

If a 15 year old boy sought a circumcision , maybe for cultural reasons ( 40% of American men are circumcised) and a surgeon deemed he was capacitous, then although ideally the parents would know, I am not sure anyone would have the right to tell them.

@JemimaTiggywinkles "Imagine for a second we are talking about literally anything other than trans issues. If we were talking about abortion, contraceptives, sti medication, vaccines etc I really doubt many people here would be arguing that schools have a duty to inform parents that a child has received treatment from a doctor."

If you / any teacher found out that a 15 year old student with SEN had had an appointment with a new GP organised by the PE teacher and members of the Duke of Edinburgh club in the months before their overnight hike, would you let the parents know?
What if an art club, all members over the age of 16, had been told by the art teacher, "I know a GP who will give anyone a script for benzos, no questions asked." ?

It's not in any way breaching privacy to let parents know of these safeguarding concerns. The school doesn't even need to know if the student has been to see the new GP, gotten a script, or taken the meds. The broach is in the level of involvement the teachers and extra-curricular club have with advising and facilitating access to pharmeceuticals for a child.

I agree and think the only reason for thinking about bc this way is just pragmatic, because it is the lesser of two evils when compared with underage pregnancies.

Well you'd be wrong. Many children (u18s) are capable of understanding the difference between carrying a pregnancy term and abortion. It doesn't matter what you or I think are the lesser of two evils - a 16yo has the same right to bodily autonomy as I (37yo) do. If she doesn't want to continue the pregnancy then that's her choice, with no parent having any say over the matter (or even knowing).

The child isn't being seen by a specialist service, nor by her own GP, but by a GP who is happy to prescribe testosterone to teenagers. Fuck knows what their motivation is, but if they're like the GP near me who does this (or even the same one, perhaps) then it'll be because they're a true believer in gender ideology.

The doctor who does this needs to be struck off. Not acceptable and purely based on their own political beliefs- that means they're not competent to be a doctor. But it isn't fair to say the school are to blame. How does a school distinguish between a competent doctor and a rogue one?

The teachers know that this child has been put on a regime that may leave her infertile and in menopause in her 20s, indeed they have facilitated it.

How would the teachers know that? I know that because I've been involved in this for years, but how would the average teacher know? They wouldn't. You're assigning medical knowledge to people that just don't have it. Rightly so because teachers are not flipping doctors!!

DemiColon · Today 23:21
All of which is to say, I just don't see comparing things like birth control as being all that convincing, even though there is quite a good understanding of how bc works and the consequences. That doesn't mean kids that age are overall well placed to deal with the complications of underaged sexual activity

I agree and think the only reason for thinking about bc this way is just pragmatic, because it is the lesser of two evils when compared with underage pregnancies.

Something I just want to add: it seems to be taken as read that in these instances, it's all very clear, kids under 16 should be able to make decisions about contraception, abortion, etc. They are able to understand enough and, in practice, the pros are seen by most people as outweighing the cons.

I'm not sure that's so clear as people assume. When we are talking about kids with challenges for example - autistic children are often quite a lot less mature than their peers at 14 or 15. Kids with FAS too, and are also easily manipulated in many cases.

I am afraid there is no way to know this, but I suspect there are a lot of children in the 13 to 15 age bracket who access contraception or abortion who would be far better off to have their parents involved. They almost certainly think that isn't the case. But very often they are in fact being exploited or engaging in very unsafe behaviours. And while doctors or service providers may think they spot these cases, I suspect that often they don't. They just don't know the kids and their situations as well as the parents do. Or they wave aside risk indicators because they make assumptions about the kids being competent to make these decisions, as we see, plenty of doctors don't have great judgement on this stuff and essentially just follow guidelines.

All of which is to say, I just don't see comparing things like birth control as being all that convincing, even though there is quite a good understanding of how bc works and the consequences. That doesn't mean kids that age are overall well placed to deal with the complications of underaged sexual activity.

This has got to be Brighton & Hove council.

Really frightening situation for those parents.

You're totally missing the point here.

You're writing as if child justed happen to be on medication that they'd sought for themselves, prescribed in normal circumstances, and the school happened to know about it. But, that's not what happened here at all.

It's important to recognise that both the parents AND senior management at the school told the teachers the child should not be socially transitioned.

A small number of teachers decided they knew best and went against the parents and their management to actively facilitate this child starting transition.

The child isn't being seen by a specialist service, nor by her own GP, but by a GP who is happy to prescribe testosterone to teenagers. Fuck knows what their motivation is, but if they're like the GP near me who does this (or even the same one, perhaps) then it'll be because they're a true believer in gender ideology.

The teachers know that this child has been put on a regime that may leave her infertile and in menopause in her 20s, indeed they have facilitated it.

This isn't the same as not telling parents a 16 year old is on the pill. It's such a huge betrayal of trust, not only if the parents but of the girl herself. They are letting their belief in this new religion severely cloud their judgement.

I hope the parents sue the arse off them.

The issue is that prescribing CSH outwith NHS protocols is a child protection issue and the parents should have been informed.

Of course parents should have been involved. By the doctor. Because (imo) no child can consent to completely experimental treatment. But no teacher or school can be expected to know what NHS protocols are for every condition. So we can't be expected to know when a doctor is going against them except in the most egregious circumstances. And (while I strongly oppose these drugs) the GMC was unable to get a doctor struck off for prescribing them, so clearly the medical profession doesn't find their use completely out of bounds.

And of course the teachers shouldn't be procuring specific medical services for children. The limit is making sure they know their rights and signposting to NHS website and their normal GP. Any teacher who did anything differently needs investigating and possibly banning from the profession.

It really is important to be aware of the wider issues. If we set a precedent that schools inform parents about potential medical issues we risk setting back girls' rights to contraceptives, and it has implications for all (older) children's rights to medical privacy. 13 seems young to me, but I know of one 14yo who wanted the HPV vaccine against her parents wishes. She was told to go to her GP to discuss her options and her parents weren't informed that she asked what to do - I think that was the right decision.

If we set the precedent that teachers / schools can interfere with doctors' decisions regarding medical treatment there is potential for serious harm to children. And yes, deciding that a particular treatment is inappropriate or that the doctor has incorrectly assessed competency so overruling that by telling parents are both examples of interfering with medical decisions.

If the GMC advice is to report puberty blockers and cross sex hormones to them, that is a good thing. It keeps the medical information confidential but adds an extra check by people who are competent to do so. I assume my DSL is aware of that (she's pretty hot on this stuff), though I wasn't.

The girl didn't have capacity to seek out a dodgy doctor herself. The arrangement was facilitated by the teachers and LGBT club.

To those saying that parents don't own their children, well nor do teachers own their pupils. In this story it is clear which adults have the child's best interests at heart. Not the ones pushing untested medications on her.

I’m also really shocked that parents don’t have the right to medical records from 13 automatically. Anyone know what system there is for children with additional needs? My autistic child wouldn’t have any idea of how to make good decisions for themselves at 13 or 14.

Absolutely terrifying reading for a parent of an autistic child only a few years away from puberty. They are so vulnerable.

Cross sex hormones for transing people should be seen as illegal, potentially harm- causing drugs for under 18s. There must be all sorts of drugs and procedures doctors are not allowed to prescribe or carry out, and cross sex hormones and transing could join the list.

Then any doctors who persevere could be prosecuted.

No doubt this won’t happen.

Getting puberty blockers illegally online is the same concern as accessing any other illegal drug. Huge safeguarding red flag and needs proper intervention, far beyond the school.

If some doctors are legally but inappropriately prescribing puberty blockers online then that needs dealing with by NICE, GMC, legislation etc. Teachers and schools cannot take responsibility that - we don't have the legal power or the expertise.

Individual teachers should never keep secrets with children - everything of even the slightest concern raised with the DSL. The DSL might or might not share with parents depending on what the law requires or doesn't allow. Some teachers or DSLs have been ignoring this - and they need properly investigating / sacking.

Even if a child is thought to be at risk from parents a school still must not keep info (eg social transition) from a parent unless required to do so by the court. Schools cannot take that decision alone.

My point (overall) is that some schools and teachers appear to have been overriding parental responsibility, particularly wrt social transition. That is very wrong. It is also very wrong for a school or teacher to override a doctor in respect of the medical care of a child (including in the assessment of competence).

But the child was already vulnerable due to her autism.. If the school thought there was any chance of self harm whatsoever should parents not be put on high alert & be monitoring her as much as humanly possible.

People talk as if safeguarding in schools doesn't exist. Trans activists are working hard to remove safeguarding from these groups of children and some posters unwittingly buy into it. Even stating that "Schools must not be overriding the medical professionals regarding competence because teachers do not have the expertise in this" is true BUT it depends on context. Getting puberty blockers from dodgy online sources ? How does that fit in?

Teachers are taught to share concerns about a child, not keep it a secret in case the parent is an alleged bigot of some sort. It's fundamental - don't work in isolation. Discussions about confidentiality / sharing info with parents are made after similar discussions where the law and guidance inform the decision. The principle is working in partnership with parents UNLESS there are legal / safeguarding issues that take priority.

Schools are part of a multi agency network that works to keep all children safe. Trans activist groups are trying to undermine these tried and tested ways of working. It's catastrophic for children's safety . We know how imperfect safeguarding can be but the idea that it is being eroded by activists is unthinkable - and wrong.

The doctor should be trusted to prescribe

But they cannot be trusted to prescribe in the case of PBs and CSHs. Tragically, many (most GPs?) will not be experts, will not be familiar with the most recent emerging research, will have already been exposed to questionable statistics and pharmaceutical claims of ‘reversible’ PBs and many NHS trusts outsourcing leadership and guidance to the likes of SW etc.

It is now an uphill battle to correct that misunderstanding and the Cass Review is only a small step. Most GPs will not have read this.

I think it’s a difficult one, and on the medical side here the doctors are in the wrong, not the school.

If a teacher is aware a child has been prescribed medication they shouldn’t be forced to tell the child’s parents. The doctor should be trusted to prescribe the right medication (or not prescribe at all), and of course the pharmacist has some responsibility as well. In this case it seems the latter part was the issue.

Yes, there are schools that are happy to virtue signal parents into transing kids. I know they have facilitated name changing. Out groups have handed down binders to under 15yos, forms and scripts of how to get referred to GIDS. Then you have the adult allies suggesting pronouns, giving kids lifts to friendly GPS, etc.

I know parents whose kids are autistic and vulnerable and have to battle this army of good doers away! Those people are hook on their own ‘rightfulness’ like a drug. They say “the poor thing” and then the kid ends school and they latch onto the next one.

Parents on the other hand have to look after their distress child, now convinced they are something they are not. And how do you fight back if you have always said ‘listen to the teacher’

The state of things is unbelievable!

Binding is classified by the Police as child abuse, teachers are ignoring this.

“Although there's no specific law within the UK around breast ironing, it's a form of child abuse.”

Note the phrase “there’s no specific law”, this is the loophole that the teaching and social services activists exploit to isolate parents. We have another thread demanding the government provide guidance to these same activists to not teach children there are more than two sexes. Considering they’re ignoring existing laws, science, language and parental trust already, I don’t hold any hope they will stop.

https://www.sussex.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/caa/child-abuse/breast-ironing-flattening/

Arg! Schools arent experts on any medical treatment!

A few points:

1. schools are be experts on any medical conditions or treatments. That has to remain the responsibility of doctors. While I agree that the doctors have acted terribly I really don't think it is okay for schools or teachers to do their own research and then decide against the medical professionals. That is a really dangerous precedent.
2. I'm not saying that the teachers here acted correctly; in fact I think they were wrong about lots of things and hope those involved are held responsible for their actions
3. the courts have not said that under 18s can't consent to this particular treatment (well one court did but that was overruled so doesn't count)
4. I am concerned that the reasoning used here could easily be applied to other medical treatments, which is why I'm trying to highlight the wider picture. I'm not trying to twist things, I'm worried about schools overstepping in both directions. Medical treatments administered by medical professionals need to be left alone by schools. On all other matters the parents need to be kept informed by schools (this includes social transition, binders, etc).

Imagine some covert Jewish teacher's taking the children of two atheists along for a religious circumcision behind the parents back.