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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Plan to let children change gender at school a 'political disaster' - row has broken out within the Government

119 replies

IwantToRetire · 24/06/2023 23:19

So many speculative articles about this which have become threads so thought I would add this one.

Do you think they are re-writing it each day as further revelations appear in news papers?

Gillian Keegan, the Education Secretary, is facing a backlash from Conservative MPs and figures in Downing Street and the Equalities Office over plans to allow pupils to choose their own pronouns if their parents give consent.

Mrs Keegan pledges to make the considerations of parents central to the proposals.
She said: “At its heart will be parents, ensuring their voices are central to decisions being made about their child in school.”

“Department for Education officials have attended too many Stonewall meetings and think social transition is acceptable. It isn’t. These are children dealing with serious changes and doctors should be involved. The guidance will reflect that.” Another source said it would be a “political disaster” if the guidance was not strengthened.

It is understood that the guidance will say that schools must consider the needs of other children in the school and must be convinced it is in the child’s best interest before affirming a new gender identity. It will also say that nobody should be compelled to use a pupil’s preferred pronouns if they don’t want to.

DfE is expected to meet with Downing Street officials next week to review the planned guidance.

Mark Lehain, head of education at the Centre for Policy Studies, said: “Confirming that parents must give permission for social transitioning in school would be a helpful clarification, as it most definitely should not happen without this.

“However, it’s essential that the guidance also makes it clear that schools should not do this if they do not feel it’s in the best interests of the child, or that other underlying issues need exploring first.”

It's another Telegraph article (just how many have they written?) which you can read in full at https://uk.style.yahoo.com/tory-backlash-children-set-gain-150444837.html

Plan to let children change gender at school a 'political disaster'

A major row has broken out within the Government over plans to let children change their gender in schools.

https://uk.style.yahoo.com/tory-backlash-children-set-gain-150444837.html

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Vebrithien · 25/06/2023 13:52

Some of us teachers are fighting back!

Questioning our own schools (and our DCs schools) on their policies.

Ensuring that science lessons are factual, trying to dispel misconceptions.

Raising concerns about compelled speech.

It's difficult, but at last, (especially for those of us who teach a shortage subject), we are at least not being threatened with suspension/dismissal.

noblegiraffe · 25/06/2023 13:50

Keegan doesn't seem like she wants to tell people what to do.

But that's because she's a Conservative. Conservatives are for small state, individual freedom. The Cass review says that social transition is not a neutral act. It also says that doing nothing is not a neutral act. So who should be the arbiter of what happens to the child in that situation? It appears the choice is between parents and schools. The Conservatives will be loathe to take that right away from parents - look at the Mail on Sunday headline "All-out war on parental authority" - that goes both ways.

Musomama1 · 25/06/2023 13:38

SunnyEgg · 25/06/2023 12:56

I don’t think people want rigid gender roles back, more freedom from stereotypes is a good thing. It’s more drop the compelled part.

Activists have taken over schools and associated organisations and schools will need to change to help students. They can’t keep compelling gender ideology

Five minutes ago we were continuing on the pathway of shirking rigid gender rules. David Walliams Boy in a Dress, girls in STEM subjects etc etc etc.

There's a misunderstanding of young people that stopping gender ideology means going back to the 1950s, it's the opposite, keep being non conformist, but it doesn't make you something called non binary and everyone has to call you a they.

Musomama1 · 25/06/2023 13:33

Keegan doesn't seem like she wants to tell people what to do.

The thing with parental consent is that it's difficult. It may be parental demand like Miriam Cates says - and simply unreasonable. But also, the child may be emotionally blackmailing their parent into giving consent, I e. making threats. How many unreasonable teenagers are there manipulating their families? That's what teens do!

This is why the state saying no isn't 'chilling', the state already says no to families which is why we have social services. The state being the 'bad cop' so to speak could actually be really helpful here.

TeenDivided · 25/06/2023 12:59

DisquietintheRanks · 25/06/2023 12:41

I think it's really unfair to expect schools to sort out this mess when government, politicians and our wider society don't agree.

I don't want to see social transition in schools but neither do I want to see the enforcement of rigid gender roles or conventions as some sort of backlash.

It's not either or, in fact both of those are the same sides of the coin.

The alternative is: dress how you like, have interests, hobbies and personality, but know what sex you are.

SunnyEgg · 25/06/2023 12:56

DisquietintheRanks · 25/06/2023 12:41

I think it's really unfair to expect schools to sort out this mess when government, politicians and our wider society don't agree.

I don't want to see social transition in schools but neither do I want to see the enforcement of rigid gender roles or conventions as some sort of backlash.

I don’t think people want rigid gender roles back, more freedom from stereotypes is a good thing. It’s more drop the compelled part.

Activists have taken over schools and associated organisations and schools will need to change to help students. They can’t keep compelling gender ideology

FedgeHund · 25/06/2023 12:51

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12231335/Parents-cat-gender-row-school-slam-teachers-focusing-woke-issues-education.html

There are difficulties in any job. Nobody held a gun to teachers head to train in the profession.

Thing is individual Cllrs, teachers, doctors and activists will end up with gangs of angry men who are failed by the justice system dealing with them and little public sympathy for the abusive professionals.

The cost of living on top of the justice civil servants legislation of totalitarian Gnostic bullies who abuse the vulnerable at work.

It's potentially going to be an angry not summer.

Parents at 'cat gender' row school slam teachers over 'woke issues'

Parents are criticising the teacher at Rye College in East Sussex for bringing 'gender politics' into the classroom, which they allege is 'stressing the children out'.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12231335/Parents-cat-gender-row-school-slam-teachers-focusing-woke-issues-education.html

DisquietintheRanks · 25/06/2023 12:41

I think it's really unfair to expect schools to sort out this mess when government, politicians and our wider society don't agree.

I don't want to see social transition in schools but neither do I want to see the enforcement of rigid gender roles or conventions as some sort of backlash.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 25/06/2023 12:31

Signalbox · 25/06/2023 12:27

She doesn’t seem to want to admit there is a problem. If she did she’d have to deal with it and I don’t think she’s up to the task.

She's not up to the task but to be fair, none of the never changing stream of education ministers have got to grips with it, preferring to dine out with Stonewall. Even bloody Ofsted were Stonewall Diversity champions until last year. No wonder kids are screwed.

Signalbox · 25/06/2023 12:27

SunnyEgg · 25/06/2023 11:57

Keegan makes me nervous as she’s too focused on the cat part and is quite soft on this but she’s working with Kemi who has been great

Miriam Cates also has been good

She doesn’t seem to want to admit there is a problem. If she did she’d have to deal with it and I don’t think she’s up to the task.

Backstreets · 25/06/2023 12:14

They’re doing a difficult job under difficult circumstances but when you’re yelling at a child for telling the truth you’re not really in cometh the hour cometh the man territory.

SunnyEgg · 25/06/2023 12:10

FedgeHund · 25/06/2023 12:03

Telling lies that most teachers are doing a great job isn't giving me much trust in her. We know a tiny minority are safeguarding and most are neglecting safeguarding.

Yes looking at pp on assemblies compelling pronouns isn’t a great job

FedgeHund · 25/06/2023 12:03

SunnyEgg · 25/06/2023 11:57

Keegan makes me nervous as she’s too focused on the cat part and is quite soft on this but she’s working with Kemi who has been great

Miriam Cates also has been good

Telling lies that most teachers are doing a great job isn't giving me much trust in her. We know a tiny minority are safeguarding and most are neglecting safeguarding.

SunnyEgg · 25/06/2023 11:57

flyingbuttress43 · 25/06/2023 11:46

Keegan makes me nervous as she’s too focused on the cat part and is quite soft on this but she’s working with Kemi who has been great

Miriam Cates also has been good

Slothtoes · 25/06/2023 11:53

I would have written something much softer than this a few years ago. But now we know a lot more about the impact of social transitioning from the experience of a lot of families. There’s no excuse not to know this.

The government should enforce a complete ban on state and private schools recognising social transition at school, let alone leading on socially transitioning their pupils at school.

Because now we know social transition is not neutral, and it is not ultimately supportive of children and it can be damaging for kids by backing them into an identity corner and also potentially alienating them from family. It can create safeguarding implications that weren’t there before. Why would schools be doing it?

And so what if some parents agree to social transition at home? Schools do different things from what parents do at home all the time.

FedgeHund · 25/06/2023 11:47

https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1671726201323307008?cxt=HHwWgIC2-e6HlbMuAAAA

I think removing music, sunsets and all that is beautiful whilst in prison, from those who induced illness in children, that their victims can never experience - based on fabrications, should help rehabilitation.

If you are too stupid or inept to do your job properly then you need to find alternative employment, safeguarding is part of DBS employment

Rufo: What do you predict for the future of transgender medicine? Will it continue to gain ground, or will it all fall apart?

Physician: I don’t know. I pray that there is a change. One of the things I’ve been thinking about is what puberty blockers do to children. This medication is called a “gonadotropin releasing hormone agonist” and it comes in the form of monthly injections or an implant. And because it simulates the activity of this hormone, it shuts down the activity of the hypothalamus. The hypothalamus is this almond-sized structure in your brain, it’s one of the most primal structures we have, and it controls all the other hormonal structures in your body—your sexual development, your emotions, your fight-or-flight response, everything. But it shouldn’t be described in such cold physiological terms because your hypothalamus is not just a hormone factory. It’s this system that allows you to stand in awe of the beauty of a sunset, or to hear the sounds of orchestral music and to stop whatever you’re doing and want to listen. And I always think that if someone were to ask me, Where is it that you would look for the divine spark in each individual? I would say that it would be somewhere “beneath the inner chamber,” which is the Greek derivation of the term hypothalamus. To shut down that system is to shut down what makes us human.

https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1671726201323307008?cxt=HHwWgIC2-e6HlbMuAAAA

ResisterRex · 25/06/2023 11:41

Mixedberrygenderfluidmuffin · 25/06/2023 11:33

Miriam Cates believes the guidance needs to be clear there should be no social transition in schools:
Saying no to school transition | Miriam Cates | The Critic Magazine

I've also just spotted this thread of hers, ending with her article:

https://twitter.com/miriamcates/status/1672653417938841602?s=46&t=WHoOZZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

"Discussions about the draft ‘trans’ schools guidance seem to be confusing three distinct concepts: parental involvement; parental consent; and parental demands.

The right to parental involvement means parents have the right to be involved in their child’s life, so schools and other agencies should not keep secrets from them without good reason. Parental consent, in the context of schools, is required when a school seeks permission /2

to do something to or with a child outside of the normal in loco parentis arrangement. For example, schools must gain parental consent to take children on a school trip or administer medication. Parents do not, however, have the right to have all their demands met by schools./3

For example, a parent can ask for their child to be excused from wearing uniform but the school has no obligation to agree to this. When I was a teacher, a parent once phoned me to demand I sit with their child through my lunch break each day to help him finish his coursework,/4

which he had failed to hand in on time. It was a very short conversation. Schools frequently do not give in to parental demands; this is not, in itself, a breach of parental consent or parental involvement, rather a function of the fact that schools have rules and policies /5

to which all children must adhere.

If a school decides to socially transition a child (as huge numbers of schools currently are) then of course parental consent and involvement ought to be required. However, it doesn’t follow that schools do or should have /6

the legal, ethical or clinical authority to transition a child. Those who are saying that schools can’t refuse a parent’s wishes in this regard are confusing parental consent with parental demands. If the government decides (and who else’s job is it to decide?) /7

that the State should not transition children (as I argue in @ TheCriticMag below) it will then be perfectly legitimate for schools to refuse to transition a child even with parental consent, just as they would refuse to allow a child to vape on school grounds, /8

even with parental consent. It a mistake to take a managerial approach to this issue by drawing up a glorified flow chart to decide who gets to transition and when. This is not a management issue, it’s a safeguarding issue. No child is born in the wrong body /9

and there is no evidence that social transition benefits children; if the Government really believes this then it must ban schools from transitioning children.
If there was no legal minimum driving age, plenty of parents would be persuaded to allow their child to drive before/10

the age of 17. Having a law to prevent this is not a breach of parental rights; it’s a necessary and evidence-based boundary to keep citizens safe. This should, after all, be the primary role of any government. /11"

HipTightOnions · 25/06/2023 11:33

The point is, the school will say that they are acting in the best interests of the child, and/or the best interests of the school ('aligning needs and policies with available resources') and we all understand that.* So why is the 'social transitioning' political crap different?*

I think it's because the DfE and schools are terrified of being responsible. This way, if anything goes wrong it's all the parents' fault.

SunnyEgg · 25/06/2023 11:32

ValancyRedfern · 25/06/2023 11:14

Sadly that is not my experience. We had an assembly only last week saying students must use preferred pronouns. Most children are fully on board, it's a small minority who question it, and even those with doubts are far too scared to speak out.

This is the main problem here

FedgeHund · 25/06/2023 11:29

SlightlyShostakovich · 25/06/2023 11:21

You're right @MrsOvertonsWindow - schools override parental consent and parental wishes every day, don't they?

Lunch box 'policing'
Refusing authorisation for family holidays
Refusing authorisation for appointments that aren't seemed 'urgent'
Sending children out of lessons for uniform infractions
Not admitting children on to the school site at all because of uniform infractions
Not letting children go to the toilet when they need to go
Not letting girls manage periods with sufficient privacy and dignity
Not fulfilling the school's legal obligations around SEN provision
Ignoring or refusing requests to administer certain medications

I could go on.

The point is, the school will say that they are acting in the best interests of the child, and/or the best interests of the school ('aligning needs and policies with available resources') and we all understand that.

So why is the 'social transitioning' political crap different?

Why is this allowed?

They need a good hard virtual cane by the government, police and parents, the media should ridicule them.

No other professional goes on about wanting respect.

They get respect when it's earned. When they quit queer theory boundaries breaking and behave themselves, quit behaviour like narcissistic feckless immature teenagers.

£34k plus pension, for 8 months work and they won't even safeguard properly.

Pink Floyd! Leave those kids alone!

FedgeHund · 25/06/2023 11:22

RealityFan · 25/06/2023 11:18

Wow, gaslighting an entire generation. Well done adults, great work. Fucking genius.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4733732-disturbing-dr-em-article-about-furries-their-links-to-snp

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4834957-furries-widely-accepted-by-lgbtq-community-according-to-this-article-are-they-represented-in-the-new-flag

The devoring mother/ Grim Stepmother teachers at school will have the trans species experts in next week.

The parents will find their parental responsibility removed without court orders and the children emancipated earning a living in the local fast food restaurant run by a big bloke named "Daddy" .

disturbing Dr EM article about 'furries' & their links to SNP..... | Mumsnet

Another article about Beth Douglas. This time, an investigstion into 'furries'... Its pretty grim, and may need a trigger warning for child abuse. U...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4733732-disturbing-dr-em-article-about-furries-their-links-to-snp