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Original poster

Teenager guilty of murder.

955 replies

placemats · 23/06/2023 13:26

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/23/teenager-guilty-baby-herefordshire-hide-pregnancy-paris-mayo

Apart from the fact that she was raped, if consent to sex is to be a legal term, I find the prosecutions allegations appalling.

'But the prosecution alleged Mayo must have known she was pregnant but chose to deliberately conceal it because she was always planning to kill the baby.'

Perhaps Mayo didn't get early abortion help she needed. I know of one woman, who had 3 previous children, who didn't realise she was pregnant, thought it was early menopause until 4 weeks before her due date. However to allege she was always planning to kill the baby is a step too far. It intimates that those in authority know this child's mind.

Teenager guilty of murdering baby in Herefordshire to hide pregnancy

Paris Mayo, now 19, violently assaulted newborn in 2019 to stop family finding out about the birth

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/23/teenager-guilty-baby-herefordshire-hide-pregnancy-paris-mayo

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Original poster
placemats · 25/06/2023 13:07

Tillyteacup · 25/06/2023 13:05

He didn’t murder and torture a baby. He shouldn’t have for her pregnant there is no excuse for that but it doesn’t mean he would murder any children he has. He absolutely should face consequences as she was underage though.

He specifically said he didn't like condoms. He knew she could have had a pregnancy as a result. He goes on to meet women and have babies with them. Should he? Is he happy to impregnate a woman and not care about the result?

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Tillyteacup · 25/06/2023 13:05

He didn’t murder and torture a baby. He shouldn’t have for her pregnant there is no excuse for that but it doesn’t mean he would murder any children he has. He absolutely should face consequences as she was underage though.

Original poster
placemats · 25/06/2023 13:05

You suggested the DIY abortion above killing the child.

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AllOfThemWitches · 25/06/2023 13:04

Imagine telling a stranger you're surprised they didn't diy their abortion, speculating on their mental state and then suggesting they need to 'step away.' Ah, good old mumsnet.

Original poster
placemats · 25/06/2023 13:03

Tillyteacup · 25/06/2023 13:01

I hope she is locked up long enough that she is too old to have babies when released. Rest In Peace little one x

Meanwhile the male who got her pregnant, father of the baby, goes on to have a happy loving family.

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AP5Diva · 25/06/2023 13:02

Tillyteacup · 25/06/2023 12:51

Also if she had psychosis surely when she came back from that she would feel horror and remorse at doing something so out of character instead of lying about it and still trying to save her skin? If it was me I would tell them to lock me up and admit it, k would be so overcome with my actions I wouldn’t have it in me to try and convict lies to save myself.

If she had/has psychosis this would depend on what delusions she might have and also whether she has any memory of what happened. What we see as lies because they aren’t what really happened, could genuinely be what she remembers happening when she was in a psychotic state. It would explain why she persisted with four years of the same story- criminal justice professionals have observed that liars tend to change their story several times from arrest to trial.

Original poster
placemats · 25/06/2023 13:01

The prosecution went for a murder charge. The Judge suggested that infanticide could be considered. I find this technically a legal anomaly.

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Tillyteacup · 25/06/2023 13:01

I hope she is locked up long enough that she is too old to have babies when released. Rest In Peace little one x

ArabeIIaScott · 25/06/2023 13:00

AP5Diva · 25/06/2023 12:49

I’m only arguing that she has diminished responsibility due to her age and the 2:1 odds that she was suffering from psychosis. It’s actually a higher probability for her if I were to apply the factors that make psychosis high risk- being under age 20, from a home that has emotional abuse/neglect, having had adverse childhood experiences (like a dying parent), and so on.

Diminished responsibility is not saying it is excusable.

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Quite.

You're discussing context and nuance, though. Not everyone goes for that.

AllOfThemWitches · 25/06/2023 13:00

placemats · 25/06/2023 12:58

Many have, rightly, told you to step away from this thread.

You need to do this.

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Ah, you can't articulate yourself. Fair enough.

Original poster
placemats · 25/06/2023 13:00

It was a 10 to 2 decision on the jury.

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Walkden · 25/06/2023 12:59

Lots of theories and opinions on this thread but the jury heard and saw all the evidence and based on that judged it to be murder and rejected the infanticide verdict which says it all really. Rip, little one.

Original poster
placemats · 25/06/2023 12:58

AllOfThemWitches · 25/06/2023 12:56

Again, I really don't know what you're on about? Literally no one has said psychosis doesn't exist? You don't know anything about me?

I'm so confused, please could someone clarify what this poster is getting at?

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Many have, rightly, told you to step away from this thread.

You need to do this.

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Original poster
placemats · 25/06/2023 12:56

In 2019 you couldn't access abortion pills via the post - which are only meant for first trimester. She was 14 then.

You are judging her as a 19 year old.

@BMustard

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AllOfThemWitches · 25/06/2023 12:56

placemats · 25/06/2023 12:54

So @AllOfThemWitches psychosis doesn't exist? Just a theory.

Perhaps child neglect doesn't exist either. After all you were able to cope perfectly well with your teenage pregnancy and have no problems mentally afterwards. All perfectly normal.

Again, I really don't know what you're on about? Literally no one has said psychosis doesn't exist? You don't know anything about me?

I'm so confused, please could someone clarify what this poster is getting at?

Original poster
placemats · 25/06/2023 12:54

So @AllOfThemWitches psychosis doesn't exist? Just a theory.

Perhaps child neglect doesn't exist either. After all you were able to cope perfectly well with your teenage pregnancy and have no problems mentally afterwards. All perfectly normal.

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BMustard · 25/06/2023 12:52

With respect, many (most?) pregnant 15 year olds don't come from the best backgrounds or having loving and supportive families.

In fact, many come from abusive backgrounds, where they are terrified, including myself. Yet how many cases end up like this?

Family unhappy about teen pregnancy = infanticide? In the UK? In 2019?

Tillyteacup · 25/06/2023 12:51

Also if she had psychosis surely when she came back from that she would feel horror and remorse at doing something so out of character instead of lying about it and still trying to save her skin? If it was me I would tell them to lock me up and admit it, k would be so overcome with my actions I wouldn’t have it in me to try and convict lies to save myself.

AllOfThemWitches · 25/06/2023 12:51

ArabeIIaScott · 25/06/2023 12:48

It's perfectly possible to not have a theory. In fact in the absence of enough evidence it's by far the most sensible position to take.

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Ah well there are theories abound on this thread, you should probably let everyone know it's possible not to speculate.

Tillyteacup · 25/06/2023 12:49

It’s the violence which gets me. A frightened girl dumping her baby in a bin or shaking him to stop him crying in a panic is also horrible but indicates someone in a trauma rather than a bad person. This girl did evil things to this baby over a prolonged amount of time.

AP5Diva · 25/06/2023 12:49

Weveforgottenwhoweare · 25/06/2023 11:42

For your own sanity - step away from this thread. People here are arguing that this girls depravity is excusable based on her sex and age.

The biggest waste of time is arguing with the fool and fanatic who doesn’t care about truth or reality, but only the victory of their beliefs and illusions.

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I’m only arguing that she has diminished responsibility due to her age and the 2:1 odds that she was suffering from psychosis. It’s actually a higher probability for her if I were to apply the factors that make psychosis high risk- being under age 20, from a home that has emotional abuse/neglect, having had adverse childhood experiences (like a dying parent), and so on.

Diminished responsibility is not saying it is excusable.

ArabeIIaScott · 25/06/2023 12:48

AllOfThemWitches · 25/06/2023 12:36

No, you don't get to tell people when they can and can't talk just because you don't like what they're saying about an upsetting subject matter. I wonder what your theory is re why this girl did what she did if she was not experiencing psychosis.

It's perfectly possible to not have a theory. In fact in the absence of enough evidence it's by far the most sensible position to take.

Original poster
placemats · 25/06/2023 12:46

It certainly wasn't loving or supportive.

Why ring 999 immediately on discovering the body of the baby in the bin bag?

The police must surely have seen the 'crime scene' in the living room and wondered what was going on in this semi detached house that led to this.

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AP5Diva · 25/06/2023 12:43

Iwasafool · 25/06/2023 09:42

Yet many many 15 year olds don't lie, do seek help and don't murder their babies. I'd say that is the vast majority of them.

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Many 15yr olds actually have loving and supportive families. That’s the one conclusion the jury came to that I found completely baffling and in defiance of the evidence we’ve seen.

AP5Diva · 25/06/2023 12:42

AgathaSpencerGregson · 25/06/2023 09:18

I did not say that juries are infallible. My point is that a jury who has heard all the evidence and clearly done its best to deliberate over it carefully is more likely to be right than a member of the public in a snit over a verdict that doesn’t suit her preconceived ideas.

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Well you certainly know how to take a discussion right into the gutter by slinging personal insults. You don’t have to agree with my opinion, but that doesn’t make it a ‘snit’ nor is it based on ‘preconceived ideas’- I’ve posted more than enough to show my opinion is evidence based.