Page 9 | Glinner calling women "handmaidens"

ftmquestions · 2023-06-21T21:34:16+00:00

Respect to glinner for speaking up but does anyone else consider his use of the term "handmaiden" grating? I don't like men calling women sexist names because they don't agree with him. Not one to criticise usually, cba with purity politics etc - and he can say what he likes - but I just wondered if I was alone in this making me bristle slightly

Zodfa · 22/06/2023 08:49

I think it's a bit overused.

Interesting that there's a nasty word for women who are like this but not one for men who are just the same (that I can think of).

Xoxoxoxoxoxox · 22/06/2023 08:35

No it doesn’t bother me, crack on Glinner!

Musomama1 · 22/06/2023 08:18

I think it's fair. It's also a lot nicer than terf!

RavingStone · 22/06/2023 08:15

I couldn't care less what language Glinner uses. Fuck conduct and fuck decorum. Fuck appealing to female socialisation and women being told they don't deserve rights because they asked for them the wrong way.

Glinner's actions speak louder and he is a principled, brilliant man. And brought us some of the best comedy I've ever seen.

Kucinghitam · 22/06/2023 08:15

risefromyourgrave · 22/06/2023 07:10

I prefer the use of this picture when referring to women who put the wants of men above the needs and rights of women.

That's a very apt picture indeed.

Bosky · 22/06/2023 08:14

Mumsnet Feminist Womens Rights (FWR) aka "Feminism: Sex and Gender Discussions": where females who think anyone can be a man and males who think that anyone can be a woman come to complain about the way a male defends the sex-based rights of women and girls.

You couldn't make up this shit! 🙄

RavingStone · 22/06/2023 08:07

I really like Dick Panderer too. You don't have to understand any cultural references to know what it means.

Unless dick means elbow or something in American?

pues · 22/06/2023 08:03

Love Glinner. He can do no wrong and has sacrificed so much in his support for women.

TheGreatATuin · 22/06/2023 08:01

But back to the original question, I'm not a fan of 'handmaidens', because although it's a genuine term predating Atwood, the handmaids (and handmaidens historically) weren't given much choice. Its become too confused with Atwood and I think isn't the best term anyway.
Aunt Lydias would be far more accurate.
But I'm not going to denounce Glinner for it. He was one of the first to speak up and has been hugely punished for it. Maybe he doesn't always use the language I would, but so what? No one does that exactly, and his heart is in the right place. I have a lot of respect for him.

TheGreatATuin · 22/06/2023 07:57

In a similar vein, does it not bother Mumsnet that Linehan's last ban was for making death threats towards a group of women?
Bullshit.
The whole 'boy who cried wolf' thing worked for a while, but it's not any more. We do go and check these things for ourselves.
Every single time I've seen a 'death threat' from the GC side, it's been either a tweet that has been taken in such bad faith that it bears no relation to what the person actually said or its been from a new account with no followers and suspicious AF.
Try making your case in good faith on things people have actually said. Maybe then we could get somewhere with this godawful mess.

BezMills · 22/06/2023 07:44

I wouldn't use it, don't like it.

But I'm in not the Word Police and even if that was a thing I wouldn't join up.

Waitwhat23 · 22/06/2023 07:41

I also don't think that I've seen a single tweet by Glinner where the replies aren't full with the deeply unpleasant, utterly predictable replies from TRA's of 'how's your wife' or similar. Margey on here does it as well - it's like a script.

I might not agree with everything Glinner says but that's the same for everyone.

And I don't use Handmaidens. I use Dick Panderers.

HellsTeethandBucketsofBlood · 22/06/2023 07:36

Margotshypotheticaldog · 22/06/2023 00:14

I always think the actual handmaidens were victims in the story. It was the Aunts who did the dirty work, they were the real misogynists. Aunt Lydia had this great line where she explained the 2 types of freedom, the freedom to and the freedom from. It gave me the shivers. Lydia and the other aunts were so sinister, because they were women. I am also baffled by M Attwood's stance. She predicted so much as a sort of horrible science fiction dystopia, but now that much of it has become reality she thinks it's fine? And we should all budge up and be kind?? It doesn't make any sense.
As for Glinner, I have no real opinion. I'm always suspicious of men claiming to be feminists. Maybe that's just my problem.

Yes! The handmaiden were constantly plotting against their masters. They hated it and could see what was happening. Handmaiden is more what a terf is. Female gender ideologists are the aunts or wives.

Florissante · 22/06/2023 07:35

FriendlyNeighbourhoodTrans · 22/06/2023 00:10

@BigMaggieShoes @RoseslnTheHospital Believe me I'd love to if I could, but attempting dialogue with Linehan has repeatedly been shown to be pointless as he refuses to in any way engage with the arguments of anyone who disagrees with him. And how could he? His entire business model now relies on him being the terfiest terf to ever terf, so he can be a leader of a community and extract subscriptions from his followers. The prospect of a renewed comedy career or his musical are entirely unavailable to him now, so he's economically trapped himself in his present mode of existence. Also, he literally blocks everyone on his substack from commenting who does not pay him money :/

Was more just curious (since this thread seemed to be a discussion about his conduct) where the line was for different members of this forum when it came to the man and the various things he does.

Gosh. Imagine that. Refusing to debate.

Florissante · 22/06/2023 07:34

GrimDamnFanjo · 22/06/2023 00:17

It's all very well to criticise Glinner for not engaging with "the arguments." We know that's pointless as the endgame is removal of sex and replacement with gender.
For all his faults he's been one of the few high profile commentators and stuck his neck out paying a very high personal price.

Well put.

Florissante · 22/06/2023 07:32

ftmquestions · 22/06/2023 07:23

Yeah that is absolutely mental isn't it!

Show quote history

I agree.

Florissante · 22/06/2023 07:32

FriendlyNeighbourhoodTrans · 21/06/2023 23:35

First post! Trans person here - having seen a little of what he's posted on Twitter and his blog thing (not too much, as I find his mental decline quite depressing to watch), it does seem like he feels entitled to the support of women in a way that he doesn't with men, and as such when any women falls on the wrong side of his Us vs Them dynamic he more often speaks in terms of "betrayal". Which sounds very patriarchal if you ask me...

In a similar vein, does it not bother Mumsnet that Linehan's last ban was for making death threats towards a group of women? Doesn't that puncture the illusion that he's in this for any reason other than it gives him a license to hate?

Because it's not just "handmaiden" he uses - he frequently accuses complete strangers of being groomers, paedophiles or some other form of irredeemable evil that means he doesn't have to treat them as people.

mirax · 22/06/2023 07:28

ftmquestions · 22/06/2023 05:41

Ah it's just the way he uses it really grates on me "xyz, handmaiden". I just find it sexist and annoying. It's like when men say "shut up, terf". I find tra women very annoying too but regardless I don't like seeing a man call women handmaidens in the name of defending their rights. Just doesn't sit well with me. This is not a "purity politics" or "language policing" tuning (am team kjk and don't like the jcj style of critiquing the gender movement) I simply bristle at this and wondered if I was alone

I dont share your concerns at all and many women, espcially the professional feminist organisations deserve worse names than handmaiden for what they have allied themselves to.

Original poster

ftmquestions · 22/06/2023 07:23

RavingStone · 22/06/2023 07:12

Handmaiden is insulting but it's fine to speculate and gloat about Glinner's supposed "mental decline" and his career ending.

What else have you got when the man sticks to his principles after relentless bullying?

Glinner can't stage a musical because he sticks up for women's rights and is against putting gay and autistic kids on hormones. But a Michael Jackson musical arrives in the west end shortly.

Yeah that is absolutely mental isn't it!

OP posts:

Grimbelina · 22/06/2023 07:20

FriendlyNeighbourhoodTrans

I find his mental decline quite depressing to watch

So snide and unpleasant along with the faux naive tone.

Whether you like him or not Glinner has made extraordinary sacrifices to publicise the horrors of the dangers of men in women's spaces, the failures of safeguarding children. He has fought fire with fire and I for one am grateful to him (and also so sad that he can't work and there is so much of his talent that we are missing out on).

It is sad that we need it but Handmaid/Handmaiden is a great shorthand.

RavingStone · 22/06/2023 07:12

Handmaiden is insulting but it's fine to speculate and gloat about Glinner's supposed "mental decline" and his career ending.

What else have you got when the man sticks to his principles after relentless bullying?

Glinner can't stage a musical because he sticks up for women's rights and is against putting gay and autistic kids on hormones. But a Michael Jackson musical arrives in the west end shortly.

risefromyourgrave · 22/06/2023 07:10

I prefer the use of this picture when referring to women who put the wants of men above the needs and rights of women.

BordoisAgain · 22/06/2023 07:08

'behold the handmaid of the Lord'.

Yeah, that makes sense but I think it's from earlier in the OT - the story of Abraham has his wife Sarah unable to conceive so he is given Sarah's handmaid Hagar to impregnate.

Anklespraying · 22/06/2023 07:02

FriendlyNeighbourhoodTrans · 22/06/2023 00:10

@BigMaggieShoes @RoseslnTheHospital Believe me I'd love to if I could, but attempting dialogue with Linehan has repeatedly been shown to be pointless as he refuses to in any way engage with the arguments of anyone who disagrees with him. And how could he? His entire business model now relies on him being the terfiest terf to ever terf, so he can be a leader of a community and extract subscriptions from his followers. The prospect of a renewed comedy career or his musical are entirely unavailable to him now, so he's economically trapped himself in his present mode of existence. Also, he literally blocks everyone on his substack from commenting who does not pay him money :/

Was more just curious (since this thread seemed to be a discussion about his conduct) where the line was for different members of this forum when it came to the man and the various things he does.

You can subscribe to his substack and chat away with him there. I have done.

If you have an Idea for a longer chat why not pitch it to him and go on The Mess we are in.

Do that instead of sounding like a pompous arse talking here about "his conduct".

Abhannmor · 22/06/2023 06:58

Signalbox · 22/06/2023 06:23

In a similar vein, does it not bother Mumsnet that Linehan's last ban was for making death threats towards a group of women?

Who did he threaten to kill?

Nobody ...it's the usual old bollocks. I think he was plugging his podcast and said ' I'm gonna kill em!' or some such line. What sane and rational people call ' a figure of speech ' and not meant to be taken literally.

As our TRA poster know full well.

I always thought Handmaid came from the gospel - the Annunciation specifically, where Gabriel tells Mary she is to bear the Messiah. She responds ' behold the handmaid of the Lord'.

But I'm no bible scholar.