Glinner calling women "handmaidens"

I'm guessing it is more conditional upon whether they are championing the sterilisation of kids and rapists in women's prisons rather than just 'disagreement'.

You could ask him yourself you know. He is on here, and on twitter. Instead of starting a thread to slag him off.

We could if your posts had any kind of valid point to make.

I think you are tying yourself in knots because for whatever reason, you don’t like the fella.

Almost as if there's some sort of 5th Column at work in the feminist movement!

Certainly comes across that way!

This is exactly the kind of IDPOL nonsense that got us into this mess!

There are no words that women can use and men cannot and vice versa.

The problem is that I don't think there are any words that express the concept of the handmaiden except handmaiden. And we need to be able to express it. It's ironic that we spend so much time talking about this sort of thing that sometimes our eyes are taken off the real battles still to be fought. Almost as if there's some sort of 5th Column at work in the feminist movement!

I do remember women saying things like "I suppose you're going to call me a handmaiden and not a feminist because I like having sex with men/shave my legs/like pretty clothes/am a SAHM." I also remember women behaving in pretty handmaideny ways accusing everyone of being unsisterly and saying "feminism is about being able to make choices"......

I think that for male allies even more than feminist women, it's best not to use demeaning terms for women you disagree with. Acknowledge that there are anti-feminist women, but be ready to say that every woman should be respected.

It happened a lot on here too.

Anyway, here's Posie's thread.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/2679960-Not-feminist-enough-if-youre-heterosexual

Strangely I don't keep links of everything i ever read in case I need to prove something to someone fifteen years later. I don't even know how many of those blogs still exist.

Feminists calling each other handmaidens because they weren't exactly in lock step with each other was a big thing in the feminist blog sphere about 15 years ago

Evidence, please? I used to read some of the big name feminist blogs around that time. I don’t remember this term being used ever. Unfortunately some anti-feminist posters here don’t even have a nodding acquaintance with the truth and simply make up any old shit to suit their arguments, even when it seems far too trivial to be worth lying about. So I’d like to see a couple of links demonstrating this was ever a “big thing.” This thread seems to be full of made up nonsense tbh.

@Nomorenonbinary I was there-that's not how I remember it. But I was also there in the1970s. I may have a little less patience than some!

@TooBigForMyBoots " Being called a Handmaid is one of the reasons KJK doesn't identify as a feminist."

Fair enough. Up to her. I don't know enough about her to say whether it was a justified accusation. Seems unlikely- but if someone calling her something disobliging caused her to cease to identify as a feminist I call that a pretty poor show.

@CurlewKate Feminists calling each other handmaidens because they weren't exactly in lock step with each other was a big thing in the feminist blog sphere about 15 years ago.

Being called a Handmaid is one of the reasons KJK doesn't identify as a feminist.

@TooBigForMyBoots "Before the trans shitshow this argument was used against married women, SAHMs, women who shave/wear make-up, religious women etc. It is so subjective that most women fall under its definition."

Fair enough. That has not been my experience. There are women who do the things you cite-but those things alone do not make them fall under the "handmaiden" umbrella. Such statements are a common anti-feminist trope. "I'm always being told I'm not a feminist because I'm a SAHM/like men/shave my armpits...." No you're not. It is possible you're being told you're not a feminist. But not for those reasons.

I was talking about Handmaiden of the Patriarchy @TooBigForMyBoots.

In public debate, "handmaiden" was reserved for women who campaigned against women's liberation. That's pretty much how it's being used in the gender war.

I didn't expect to have to explain that I meant:

In public, Handmaiden was reserved for anti-liberation women. It wasn't used indiscriminately about women performing femininity in their personal lives, as that would've included nearly all the female audience. In closed feminist groups and other informal discussions, it was used that way sometimes.

Now we see "handmaiden" being applied to women who support male usurpers of women's rights & female identity - so are anti-women's liberation, too. The same epithet is being applied to the same class of behaviour.

Clearly, more discussions these days are public. I'd dispute that all discussions are public, though, and don't see what point you were trying to make with that.

Finally, the fact that your generation's feminists piggy-backed on the work of my generation doesn't invalidate either effort.

In the public debate on Mnet, Twitter etc, Handmaiden has been used in all the ways I mentioned. It hasn't been reserved for women who campaign against women's liberation.

Your post is the first time I have heard that and I'm a middle aged feminist who's been about a bit.

As compared to private 🙄

What do mean in public debate? Surely most debates outside of academia are public.

Female slaves who may be used sexually are attested and formalised from 2,000 BC at the latest. Attwood didn't make this up: https://vardags.com/family-law/assyrian-tablet-reveals-ancient-marriage-contract-with-surrogacy-clause

There's also evidence from (I think) even earlier, of male rulers taking their personal female slaves (handmaids) to the grave with them - sometimes by the dozen. At least one favoured handmaid, having been spared for some reason, ran alongside the funeral procession begging to be killed and buried with her master. She was, of course, granted her wish and subsequently revered.

The master's preferred female slave has been in a privileged position, albeit precarious, right up until recent colonial times. She has frequently guarded her status against competitors, including having them and their children killed - plenty of that in Greek & Roman history.

The intended meaning of "handmaiden" is absolutely clear. I'm posting this potted history on the offchance that anyone really didn't know.

I was called ' Nazi ' ' C*' ' scum' on my way into a peaceful legal meeting for women that supported men out of womens sports and prisons. It was even more horrible to see young women turning on me and others, spitting with rage
'Handmaidens' is polite... these women are aggressively betraying and intimidating other women.

Go Glinner!

No issue with it whatsoever.

It's apt for the many, many posters professing to be women who turn up persistently on horrific threads, by women bravely sharing their stories about sexual, coercive or violent abuse, to tell them they are man haters who should consider the feelings of the men. To hell with their pain, trauma or understandable desire for self-preservation. Just fuck off.

'Bitch' or 'cunt' are misogynistic names that I'd never call another woman, ever.
'Handmaiden' in this context - or any where women willingly and happily throw other women to the dogs - absolutely fair play. You want to call women who object to this shit misogynistic, well if the cap fits ...