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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

France - women only lesbian groups banned from Pride events

389 replies

ArabeIIaScott · 20/06/2023 10:17

https://reduxx.info/france-female-only-lesbian-groups-barred-from-pride-month-events-over-transphobia/

'A female-only lesbian advocacy group in France was excluded from their local Pride parade on the basis that they did not allow the membership of trans-identified males. Femmes Entre Elles was labeled “transphobic” for restricting its advocacy to issues faced by women.
Femmes Entre Elles, which translates to “Women Among Themselves,” is a single-sex association for lesbian and bisexual women that has operated for over 30 years. It has been involved in campaigns to support women’s sex-based rights and the rights of lesbian women.
But on May 27, the group was informed via email that they were not welcome to participate in the annual Pride march in Rennes'

FRANCE: Female-Only Lesbian Groups Barred From Pride Month Events Over "Transphobia" - Reduxx

A female-only lesbian advocacy group in France was excluded from their local Pride parade on the basis that they did not allow the membership of trans-identified males. Femmes Entre Elles was labeled “transphobic” for restricting its advocacy to issues...

https://reduxx.info/france-female-only-lesbian-groups-barred-from-pride-month-events-over-transphobia

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14
CompleteGinasaur · 22/06/2023 16:00

Sorry, that was for the seemingly logic-averse TeaKlaxon, in case there was any doubt.

CompleteGinasaur · 22/06/2023 15:59

I was on numerous Clause 28, Aids and Miners' Strike protests and rallies in the 80s. The National Front used to show up regularly. By your logic that makes me a Nazi too.

GailBlancheViola · 22/06/2023 15:54

So link the evidence of that claim @TeaKlaxon

I can find nothing relating to any of that when I look so you must have cast iron evidence that I can't find and I'd like to see it if you don't mind.

TeaKlaxon · 22/06/2023 15:50

GailBlancheViola · 22/06/2023 15:18

You really can't get your facts right can you Tea? What Nazis in New Zealand? Or do you mean those Nazis that punched an elderly woman in a wheelchair in the face?

The Nazis that rocked up to support Posie Parker at her Auckland 'rally' (the one that attracted about 200 people and ten times as many protestors).

You know, the one that Sam Brittenden, from Action Zealandia, attended. Or the one where masked men wearing symbols of the Boogaloo Boys rocked up doing nazi salutes.

None of that happened, did it?

GailBlancheViola · 22/06/2023 15:39

Come on @TeaKlaxon show us your evidence regarding New Zealand otherwise one could conclude that you don't have any and ae just making stuff up and I am sure you don't want that.

TinselAngel · 22/06/2023 15:38

Imagine being led by someone who has their pick of national far right groups, and still thinking you're the good guys.

You're seriously alleging that all around the world, far right groups offer Posie their services and she picks out which ones she wants to come to her protests and make her look bad? I wonder what the selection process is? I hope it's like the Hunger Games.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/06/2023 15:37

Come back to us and compare how many lesbians are at Pride

I particularly enjoyed the one in 2018. That was brilliant. Especially good to watch Pink News' live broadcast, which is still online on their website. I wouldn't normally recommend clicking on their site, but the video is embedded. It's worth a watch, as it was magnificent.

www.thepinknews.com/2018/07/07/anti-trans-group-allowed-to-lead-pride-in-london-march-after-hijack/

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 22/06/2023 15:29

I never knew I was led by KJK either

I haven’t had a single one to one this year, and as for an annual review? Pah!

GailBlancheViola · 22/06/2023 15:27

You are clearly convinced of it and absolutely 100% sure about it @TeaKlaxon so show us the goods.

GailBlancheViola · 22/06/2023 15:26

Give us the evidence of the Nazis attending KJK's rally in New Zealand at her request @TeaKlaxon.

Pixiedust1234 · 22/06/2023 15:24

I already said I'm not talking about Norwegian Nazis or Australian Nazis. I'm referring to the New Zealand nazis.

So many Nazis 😱

Never knew I was led by PP. I'd be interested to know who the paedophiles and furries are being led by since you seem an authority on such things. Tia.

TeaKlaxon · 22/06/2023 15:24

DeflatedAgain · 22/06/2023 13:13

I haven't seen "LOL" used like that in a few years. Thanks for reminding me of 2012.

Have a cuppa, log off and calm down. It's clear you're not getting anywhere on this thread and you're not going to convince anyone of sound mind to agree with you, so just give it a rest.

Start your own thread if you want, it could be your lucky day, you might come across another individual who seems like they have veins popping out of their forehead 24/7.

Oh you think I believe that people on this board are open to being convinced do you?

Helleofabore · 22/06/2023 15:23

"'I already said I'm not talking about Norwegian Nazis or Australian Nazis. I'm referring to the New Zealand nazis."

"Imagine being led by someone who has their pick of national far right groups, and still thinking you're the good guys."

So, no evidence to support your accusations at all?

Just a vague 'those in New Zealand', without posting one shred of evidence.

And goodness... imagine that we are 'led'? Gosh.... whodathunkit? That we have a leader. Blimey, did I miss the vote?

Please post evidence that the FWR feminist board has a 'leader'. Or that the women's rights movement has a 'leader'.

GailBlancheViola · 22/06/2023 15:18

You really can't get your facts right can you Tea? What Nazis in New Zealand? Or do you mean those Nazis that punched an elderly woman in a wheelchair in the face?

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 22/06/2023 15:12

Am I led by KJK? You sound increasingly peculiar

TeaKlaxon · 22/06/2023 15:10

This reply has been deleted

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TinselAngel · 22/06/2023 14:45

QueenHippolyta · 22/06/2023 14:25

Notice TeaKlaxon entirely avoids my discussion of them using Queer and gender-attracted as categories , which I, as a Lesbian, totally welcome.

Why? Because it's all about males, wanting to be validated in their ....hmm what do we call men who get turned on wearing women's clothes 😉

Oh me! Me! I know that one!

It's fetishists.

Hepwo · 22/06/2023 14:26

This reply has been deleted

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I suppose counting is as good as it gets for evidence when your engagement is stuck at the level of a 14 year old.

QueenHippolyta · 22/06/2023 14:25

Notice TeaKlaxon entirely avoids my discussion of them using Queer and gender-attracted as categories , which I, as a Lesbian, totally welcome.

Why? Because it's all about males, wanting to be validated in their ....hmm what do we call men who get turned on wearing women's clothes 😉

Datun · 22/06/2023 13:19

No one cares who you're attracted to. There's no questionnaire asking about who you're attracted to before you march in pride.

I hate to break it to you, but pride was about homosexual orientation being accepted. No one had to fill out a questionnaire, because it was self evident.

What matters for Pride is whether you're inclusive of the LGBT+ community.

Haha!! Men wanting to sleep with lesbians? Get over yourself.

If not, that's fine. Pride just isn't for you.

Hence Get The L Out, Drop the T, L without the T, the LGBA, The Lesbian Project, and numerous, more secret, lesbian only groups.

Lesbians don't do dick.

And guess what?

They're not doing dick all over the place.

DeflatedAgain · 22/06/2023 13:13

TeaKlaxon · 22/06/2023 10:20

LOL at taking lessons from people so ignorant about lesbians that you think we don’t already have our own flag!

But sure, tell us more about how you lot know more about lesbians that the likes of Sandy Toksvig or Nancy Kelley.

I haven't seen "LOL" used like that in a few years. Thanks for reminding me of 2012.

Have a cuppa, log off and calm down. It's clear you're not getting anywhere on this thread and you're not going to convince anyone of sound mind to agree with you, so just give it a rest.

Start your own thread if you want, it could be your lucky day, you might come across another individual who seems like they have veins popping out of their forehead 24/7.

Datun · 22/06/2023 13:11

ArabeIIaScott · 22/06/2023 12:01

TeaKlaxon suggested Queen Hippolyta is pretending to be a lesbian.

As soon as I read Queen's post, I assumed a massive nerve was about to be hit.

I didn't see the reply, though. but it's reassuring to know my prediction was correct.

What sort of lesbian takes exception to such a heartfelt description of lesbianism??

😁

LonginesPrime · 22/06/2023 13:06

Well younger lesbians are even more supportive of trans people than older lesbians (who are also overwhelmingly supportive of trans people). And I use them as examples because I keep hearing from straight people what a lesbian really is, and those same straight people insist on either dismissing my experiences or claiming I'm not who I say I am (which is fine, by the way, any of us could be anyone).

So what we can do, rather than relying on anonymous internet posters is look at what prominent, verifiable lesbians, are saying.

I can see what you're saying, and I do accept that we can only listen to the voices of those who are actually talking.

However, I think that what you might not have picked up on from your social circles where you're seeing all this vocal acceptance of transwomen as women and therefore as lesbians, is the not insignificant number of the lesbians who feel that they can't speak out on this issue for fear of being branded transphobes if they do.

I think that while women are always on high alert for any risk of social transgression, lesbian women tend to be even more vigilant about social cohesion because of the risk from men who resent them and because their community is already so small and marginalised. So I think that lesbians who don't subscribe to gender ideology are understandably particularly reluctant to say so publicly.

I don't consider myself transphobic and I respect and have compassion for transwomen, but I don't accept that they are women and I don't date them any more, following several awful experiences that I definitely don't want to repeat.

I have been on several tinder-style dates where the person didn't tell me in advance that they were trans (it can be very hard to tell from a few carefully curated still photos), and their view was obviously that trans women are women and I am a lesbian and therefore I would only have a problem with that if I were a horrible transphobe.

And I guess it's not like when a transwoman is dating men and they have to worry about the guy getting violent when he finds out they're trabs - why would a 6' transwomen be worried about a little 5' biological woman getting annoyed with them? It's for me to worry about my safety in that situation, not them. And I don't get the option of declining as they unilaterally decided that I didn't need to know they were trans and that they know they're harmless, so why would I ever think otherwise or decide not to take the risk?

And to be honest, I've found that my issues with dating transwomen start way before the bedroom - the people I'm dating are late 30's at the youngest (often older) and have been socialised as male. I find it really hard to sit there on a date having just found out my date is a biological male because they had a different definition on "lesbian" and "woman" from me, and then hear all about how they believe their experience as a woman is akin to mine. I have been on dates with ardent male violence apologists, people repeatedly making incredibly patronising middle aged men comments to me, coercing me into condoning their caricatures of womanhood, having to 'protect' the transwoman by going downstairs to the isolated pub loo with them so that they don't get attacked by the other biological males in the pub, and so on.

I have had quite a few dates with transwomen and transmen (all from saying I'm a lesbian) - while the transmen have different issues (violence is one when they are on T, IME), I have found that it is always exhausting and not something that I would seek out from dating, not specifically because they have a penis but because they are biologically male and have usually been socialised as such, which simply doesn't work for me as a lesbian who is exclusively attracted to biological women.

Also, I have had so many problematic experiences with gender ideologues when dating that aside from not being prepared to date any more transwomen because they are biological male and I am a lesbian, I am also not prepared to date trans people or gender ideologues more generally as we are incompatible on philosophical grounds and it simply wouldn't work without one of us having to make untenable philosophical compromises.

I don't know whether you're in a relationship, but I do suggest you (safely) date some transwomen if you can as it really opened my eyes and before that I was very vocal that transwomen were women - dating them made me realise that simply isn't true in the slightest.

Helleofabore · 22/06/2023 13:05

TheBiologyStupid · 22/06/2023 12:48

It was Melbourne and I already posted a first-hand report from the Let Women Speak event debunking that earlier in this thread.

Let's see what klaxon comes back with shall we.

So far, that rabbit hole that they climbed into looks to be bright sunlight shone on the degree of superficiality of their arguments. All this morning's posts have done really is show the lack of evidence behind posts and many distractive tactics to cover it and the glaringly obvious emotional manipulation behind it all.

it has been a remarkable morning.

Helleofabore · 22/06/2023 12:57

This reply has been deleted

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Tell you what, by your very own logic, if a nazi person attends Pride, it would make pride a literal nazi event!

Do you see where your assertions lead?

And no I don't condone any nazi attending any event at all. That was an extreme example but using your own words back at you klaxon.