Page 13 | France - women only lesbian groups banned from Pride events

ArabeIIaScott · 2023-06-20T09:17:15+00:00

[[https://reduxx.info/france-female-only-lesbian-groups-barred-from-pride-month-events-over-transphobia https://reduxx.info/france-female-only-lesbian-groups-barred-from-pride-month-events-over-transphobia/]] 'A female-only lesbian advocacy group in France was excluded from their local Pride parade on the basis that they did not allow the membership of trans-identified males. ^Femmes Entre Elles ^was labeled “transphobic” for restricting its advocacy to issues faced by women. ^Femmes Entre Elles^, which translates to “Women Among Themselves,” is a single-sex association for lesbian and bisexual women that has operated for over 30 years. It has been involved in campaigns to support women’s sex-based rights and the rights of lesbian women. But on May 27, the group was informed via email that they were not welcome to participate in the annual Pride march in Rennes'

QueenHippolyta · 21/06/2023 14:02

Lesbians are not attracted to men and cocks.
Women who are same-sex and opposite-sex attracted are Bisexual.
Women who are attracted to gender are Queer and Pansexual.

Lesbian is taken.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 21/06/2023 13:54

If a bloke is trying to chat up woman (or DM-ing her, or whatever the kids do these days), and she says ‘I’m a lesbian’, the appropriate response from the man is to leave her alone

EVEN IF he’s wearing a blouse
EVEN IF he has a lady based gender identity

show some bloody respect.

JanesLittleGirl · 21/06/2023 13:51

So Pride is now exclusively inclusive. OK. Got that.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 21/06/2023 13:51

To get back to the OP, it appears that ‘transphobic’ now means ‘women who would like to spend some of their time not in the company of men’

✅

good to get these definitions out there

Mummyoflittledragon · 21/06/2023 13:27

wincarwoo · 21/06/2023 13:17

Sometimes you need to exclude to include.

Show quote history

And exclusion is precisely what is happening with the same sex attracted group of women in France in the name of “inclusion”.

How exactly does excluding a group of women align with these values of inclusion?

Helleofabore · 21/06/2023 13:20

suggestionsplease1 · 21/06/2023 12:48

People unfortunately erode each others boundaries all the time, irrespective of gender/sex or orientation. No demographic has a monopoly on this.

From my experience unfortunately I have seen this happen amongst lesbians in our social groups (yes, non trans lesbians) and somebody in the group usually has a word about the inappropriate behaviour with them, and occasionally we send out statements about what will not be tolerated, and who to speak to if someone else in the group makes them feel uncomfortable.

No transwomen in our groups have ever had complaints about them to my knowledge.

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So again with ‘I haven’t seen it so it is not happening’.

I have been thinking about that last post. Did you mean that lesbians shouldn’t say anything publicly and communicate the message because some male’s might feel excluded from lesbian dating pools?

Is that what you meant?

“People unfortunately erode each others boundaries all the time, irrespective of gender/sex or orientation. No demographic has a monopoly on this.”

oh. Ok. Great. So let’s just leave it because those young lesbians are just going to have their boundaries eroded anyway. No messaging from the lesbian community will help them and help them feel that they have the choice. Again I ask, is this what you mean? Because your posts seem to be very vague and not clear at all.

Except the ‘it’s not happening’ bit. That is very clear!

wincarwoo · 21/06/2023 13:17

suggestionsplease1 · 21/06/2023 10:39

Another lesbian here looking forward to Pride season.

It's been great seeing the increase in women attending pride marches over the years.

I remember that thread on here about Get the L Out at Pride...one of the protesters was posting on it wasn't she? She was particularly disappointed by the number of women at Pride who spoke to her saying that they were uncomfortable with what 'Get the L Out' were doing.

Pride focuses on values of inclusion, so why people whose priority is exclusion would want to attend is a bit of a paradox really.

Sometimes you need to exclude to include.

RealFeminist · 21/06/2023 13:03

ROCKETSEXUALS ARE VALID

YouJustDoYou · 21/06/2023 13:02

suggestionsplease1 · 21/06/2023 12:42

I'd suggest a short course in logic.

Are you a heterosexual woman? Do you fancy every single man that exists in the world?

If you don't, does that mean you are not heterosexual?

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I meant in terms of if they're also attracted to men then they are bisexual (and "rocket science, not rocket sexual". Mistype).

Original poster

ArabeIIaScott · 21/06/2023 12:52

https://www.etymonline.com/word/lesbian

'relating to homosexual relations between women, characterized by erotic interest in other women" (in continuous use from 1890; the noun lesbianism from this sense is attested from 1870) and the noun, which is first recorded 1925'.

OED:

https://www.oed.com/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/107453

lesbian, n. and adj.

A woman who engages in sexual activity with other women; a woman who is sexually or romantically attracted (esp. wholly or largely) to other women; a homosexual woman.

ˈlesbianism n. sexual or romantic attraction between women; sexual activity between women; (also) lesbian nature or identity.

The word has a clear meaning that explicitly does not include males.

You cannot take this word from lesbians and decide that it now includes men.

lesbian | Etymology, origin and meaning of lesbian by etymonline

LESBIAN Meaning: "pertaining to the island of Lesbos," from Latin Lesbius, from Greek lesbios "of Lesbos," Greek island… See origin and meaning of lesbian.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/lesbian

OP posts:

suggestionsplease1 · 21/06/2023 12:48

Helleofabore · 21/06/2023 12:10

Ok. So now it seems you think you will go along that it may be happening but that you think that vulnerable teenagers and young people can be empowered by the schools to over come this. Because older lesbians communicating about being able to assert boundaries that don't include males are 'too dangerous and may leave people vulnerable? I don't quite understand your point.

Either way, it is too fucking late. The thought has already been processed and is now stuck and been reinforced by the group over and over again.

But .... no..... apparently it is not happening and no lesbians are being pressured at all.

Has it ever occurred to you, and I believe I have said this to you before too, that no lesbian would tell you any different if they believe that you adhere to the ideological thinking that you display on this board? So, I will believe the other lesbians who tell us it does happen thanks.

Show quote history

People unfortunately erode each others boundaries all the time, irrespective of gender/sex or orientation. No demographic has a monopoly on this.

From my experience unfortunately I have seen this happen amongst lesbians in our social groups (yes, non trans lesbians) and somebody in the group usually has a word about the inappropriate behaviour with them, and occasionally we send out statements about what will not be tolerated, and who to speak to if someone else in the group makes them feel uncomfortable.

No transwomen in our groups have ever had complaints about them to my knowledge.

Original poster

ArabeIIaScott · 21/06/2023 12:46

There's no value judgement or shame in being bisexual.

People cannot just decide to unilaterally change the meaning of words.

Women want our stuff back.

OP posts:

Original poster

ArabeIIaScott · 21/06/2023 12:45

If you are attracted to people of both sexes, you are bisexual.

OP posts:

suggestionsplease1 · 21/06/2023 12:42

YouJustDoYou · 21/06/2023 12:14

"But of course not all lesbians are attracted to all other women".

Then they are bisexual. It's not rocket sexual.

I'd suggest a short course in logic.

Are you a heterosexual woman? Do you fancy every single man that exists in the world?

If you don't, does that mean you are not heterosexual?

Waitwhat23 · 21/06/2023 12:31

ArabeIIaScott · 21/06/2023 10:47

Oh, I see. Lesbians are free to organise their own pride but they'll get threats and violent aggression when they do so.

I don't know that's 'entirely free', tbh.

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I was about to write that I'm sure it was that event where masked men were setting fire to the Lesbian Strength posters (possibly flags). I've certainly seen photos on Aja's Twitter.

Then I saw the linked thread and the photo is the last post.

Such brave, masked men /s

IWFH · 21/06/2023 12:28

At DW's workplace one of her male colleagues (let's call them A) came out as a trans woman last year (resulting unsurprisingly in the end of A's marriage). 'A' now has a 'girlfriend' who is also a trans woman. Apparently (according to them) they are lesbians.
When words lose their meaning like this it just leaves me baffled...

Museya15 · 21/06/2023 12:21

Woman2023 · 21/06/2023 07:46

So Teaklaxon, when you say you're a lesbian I take it you mean a same-sex attracted woman. Otherwise your point is meaningless in the context of this thread.

So do you agree that the word lesbian only applies to women and not men who identify as transwomen?

Eh? I can't get my head around that!!

Boiledbeetle · 21/06/2023 12:20

From the article

Today, Pride has nothing to do with homosexuality. It’s about capitalism: surrogacy and prostitution, male paraphilias.

Seems about right.

YouJustDoYou · 21/06/2023 12:14

"But of course not all lesbians are attracted to all other women".

Then they are bisexual. It's not rocket sexual.

YouJustDoYou · 21/06/2023 12:13

That's just vile, and so hypocritical. "We must be inclusive! You're all transphobic for not wanting our feminine dick!".

Helleofabore · 21/06/2023 12:10

suggestionsplease1 · 21/06/2023 11:55

What is it that you want to say though?

Doesn't it amount to 'lesbians are only attracted to women and not transwomen' ?

But of course not all lesbians are attracted to all other women.

Sexual attraction operates at an individual level, not a group level...it is far better to empower every individual to be assertive in their declarations of their own sexual interests and choices and respectful of every other individual's sexual interests and choices rather than make overly simplistic declarations at the group level.

These overly simplistic declarations at a group level could leave vulnerable people thinking they because they fit one demographic who is, in general, interested in another demographic, they should be receptive to advances from any members of that demographic. Of course they shouldn't have to respond to any individual they are not interested in, irrespective of demographic, gender/ sex Identity or orientation.

Empower people at the individual level to be assertive about their own entirely personal sexual interests and choices, that is what is important.

Show quote history

Ok. So now it seems you think you will go along that it may be happening but that you think that vulnerable teenagers and young people can be empowered by the schools to over come this. Because older lesbians communicating about being able to assert boundaries that don't include males are 'too dangerous and may leave people vulnerable? I don't quite understand your point.

Either way, it is too fucking late. The thought has already been processed and is now stuck and been reinforced by the group over and over again.

But .... no..... apparently it is not happening and no lesbians are being pressured at all.

Has it ever occurred to you, and I believe I have said this to you before too, that no lesbian would tell you any different if they believe that you adhere to the ideological thinking that you display on this board? So, I will believe the other lesbians who tell us it does happen thanks.

Original poster

ArabeIIaScott · 21/06/2023 12:09

QueenHippolyta · 21/06/2023 12:03

@suggestionsplease1
No Lesbian is attracted to men and their cocks.
Women who are same-sex and opposite- sex attracted are Bisexual.
Women who are attracted to gender not sex are Queer and Pansexual.

Lesbian is taken.
We are asserting our boundaries!

hear, hear.

The definition of 'lesbian' excludes males.

OP posts:

QueenHippolyta · 21/06/2023 12:03

@suggestionsplease1
No Lesbian is attracted to men and their cocks.
Women who are same-sex and opposite- sex attracted are Bisexual.
Women who are attracted to gender not sex are Queer and Pansexual.

Lesbian is taken.
We are asserting our boundaries!

Meerkitkat · 21/06/2023 11:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

suggestionsplease1 · 21/06/2023 11:55

Helleofabore · 21/06/2023 11:36

Oh. So now my personal anecdote is to be questioned.

It fucking happened. I have told you about it before I believe. And this was your response then too.

So, the school should be working to enable young people to voice their own sexual choices? Really?

So, not the adult lesbian community? The adult lesbian community who wish to remain aligned with Pride leave it to the schools? Not the dominant 'intersectional' lesbians who could actually make a huge difference?

Because why?

Is it because if you actually spoke out, maybe put that on placards and marched with that message, you would be ostracised too?

Or because, you are all right Jack. Nothing to do with me! The teenagers trying to navigate the fucking mess you are creating can rely on schools to sort them out.

And while we are at it, lets fucking silence and shame those women who are lesbians who are raising the alarms!

Show quote history

What is it that you want to say though?

Doesn't it amount to 'lesbians are only attracted to women and not transwomen' ?

But of course not all lesbians are attracted to all other women.

Sexual attraction operates at an individual level, not a group level...it is far better to empower every individual to be assertive in their declarations of their own sexual interests and choices and respectful of every other individual's sexual interests and choices rather than make overly simplistic declarations at the group level.

These overly simplistic declarations at a group level could leave vulnerable people thinking they because they fit one demographic who is, in general, interested in another demographic, they should be receptive to advances from any members of that demographic. Of course they shouldn't have to respond to any individual they are not interested in, irrespective of demographic, gender/ sex Identity or orientation.

Empower people at the individual level to be assertive about their own entirely personal sexual interests and choices, that is what is important.