France - women only lesbian groups banned from Pride events

Did you miss the memo? That poster and her ilk don’t want to be included. That’s the whole point of ‘Get the L Out’.

Sorry if no one sheds any tears for the tiny minority who want to disavow the movement.

I have friends who are lesbians going out with transwomen and they have the right to determine their sexual choices and their labels
People are 100% entitled to make their own sexual choices, but you don't get to randomly choose your label, because if you do that, words start to lose their actual meanings.

So if you call yourself a lesbian, but you're happy to sleep with a bloke (it doesn't matter what he's wearing and how he's done his hair, if has a cock he's a bloke), you're destroying the meaning of the word 'lesbian'.

Another classic example here is the word 'woman'.

Can't tell you how fucked off I am that the word that describes me has been sodding well hijacked. So I can imagine that a lot of lesbians are even more fucked off than me.

I can tell you Lesbians are already self-excluding into secret social groups.

I don't know why TeaKlaxon isn't proud of being Queer and Gender-oriented. It's totally great you have a group for you:)

I find it terribly sad people somehow feel unable publically to embrace their Queerness and Pansexuality....

Yeah no. The vast majority of lesbians aren’t allowing a small minority to police our sexuality.

You can't contradict a statement about X by making a statement where you use X with a different meaning. QueenHippolyta is talking about lesbians meaning "women who are sexually oriented towards women". You are not. It's not clear what meaning you are using, but as you admit, it's not that.

This isn't an argument - it isn't even a contradiction. It's just meaningless words.

Inclusion is another word flushed down the toilet by sex denialists.

You don't need a small number of lesbians to police your sexuality, you have handed the job over to heterosexual men.

Honestly you would think lesbians would be the one group of women that were up to the job of not capitulating to men in everything.

In reality they are though, it's the same gender evangelists that have capitulated. Not lesbians.

Genderbians.

Yeah no. The vast majority of lesbians aren’t allowing a small minority to police our sexuality.

Lesbians we are and lesbians we’ll stay. But yes, your very small fringe group is more than welcome outside the LGBT+ tent.

Honestly the bollocks that is spoken about trans people demanding sex is, exactly that, bollocks.

Well they're often involved though, those bollocks?

Because I'm sick of lesbians being used, mainly by straight people, to pretend that there is some sort of validity to their transphobia.

This really is an irony from teaklaxon because she's not sick of straight people (trans identifying males) using lesbians to validate their identity.

You are angry with lesbians on behalf of straight men.

That's the point. We Lesbians are in reality quite a small group, so everyone left in Pride will be GayTrans, Queer, Pansexual+

Enjoy!

You keep saying that but not many of us are taking you up on your suggestion.

Good luck with it though.

It's funny I thought it was the great Julia Long who started "Get the L Out" but it's excellent Angela Wild and I've joined! Now all Lesbian women should leave the rainbow orgs to Queers and Pansexuals.

And yet, we are being told there is absolutely no issues here. And that lesbians who disagree that any male can be a lesbian are completely free to meet up and to date, and have their own events any time they wish! Complete freedom!

Nothing to see!

Oh... except they don't have the freedom to protest against an organisation that excludes them that some of them would have started and run for years. Because, reasons! Reasons that they should keep to them selves and just STFU already.

Yep, AFAIR it was a support group which had been held in a public building (a library or community centre I think) and were told they had to admit males. When they decided to move their meetings to a members home, it was reported to the Police by at least one male who was told that, regretfully, the Police couldn't make the homeowner admit them...into their private house. Against their wishes. Many of the replies to that tweet stated similar issues with groups having to go underground.

"More to do with, IIRC, protesting against transpeople by attempting to hijack the parade which they hadn't signed up for (registering beforehand is a requirement) and causing a blockade and disturbance which resulted in community officers or someone needing to ask them to leave."

Oh. Gosh. Another one who seems to ignore the protests, the intimidatory and sometimes violent protests extreme trans activists and allies such as Antifa of lesbians and women who have tried to have their own rallies and march.

Has the hypocrisy and lack of symmetry been realised yet by readers?

How horrific it was that a small group of woman protested a Pride march by actually peacefully blocking it (ie. no violence, no threats and no intimidation) vs the constant harassment, intimidation, threats and violence women and lesbian experience every time they meet for public events.

But then merlin you really haven't been able to acknowledge VAWAG in the past when it was against women and girls you disagree with. You have dismissed it all. Just a cream pie, just silly string, just water. I don't believe your view about that particular protest from lesbians is balanced or credible at all.

Honestly the bollocks that is spoken about trans people demanding sex is, exactly that, bollocks.

I have friends who are lesbians going out with transwomen and they have the right to determine their sexual choices and their labels

Just because lesbians aren't being pressured in your social circle (which is likely to be due to the fact that lesbians in your social circle date transwomen so are not rejecting them because of their biological sex), it doesn't mean it's not happening to other people. I assure you that it is happening, even if you aren't seeing it.

It's obviously great to have a range of lesbian perspectives on this issue, but please remember that your experience as a lesbian isn't necessarily representative of every lesbian's experience. I've certainly been pressured to accept transwomen as partners as a lesbian and while one obviously wouldn't notice this if they're happy to date transwomen anyway, it does become a significant issue for people who don't subscribe to gender ideology. It's great to hear it's not an issue for you, but it's not fair to suggest that any other lesbian's experience is "bollocks" because it doesn't align with your own.

Personal choices regarding sex lives happen at the individual level, not at a group or demographic level.

But homosexual people are a class of people because we share similar characteristics, and there are some circumstances (like legal protections, etc) where it makes perfect sense to consider gay people at the group level. This is directly relevant to dating transwomen because lesbians as a class have had to endure pressure from males for centuries on the basis that our sexual orientation should be more inclusive of men and "it's such a waste", "you just haven't met the right man", etc. The problem with saying it's an individual preference issue and not a homosexuality issue is that the lesbians who don't subscribe to gender ideology are unable to invoke any legal protection on the basis of their gayness because the people who do believe in gender ideology have skewed the meaning of the word lesbian to mean something that prevents the subsection of lesbians who don't subscribe to gender ideology from being able to describe their own sexual orientation or experiences.

I believe that trans people deserve support and respect, but I also believe that biological sex is immutable. So I would be interested in hearing how you think I should describe my sexual orientation in order to communicate that to others without using the words "lesbian" or "transphobe"? Do you accept that lesbians who don't subscribe to gender ideology are valid in their sexual orientation or does their lack of belief in gender identity mean they aren't entitled to the same rights as lesbian gender ideologues?

I understand this was nothing to do with them being lesbians, as the march had a large number of lesbians in attendance.

More to do with, IIRC, protesting against transpeople by attempting to hijack the parade which they hadn't signed up for (registering beforehand is a requirement) and causing a blockade and disturbance which resulted in community officers or someone needing to ask them to leave.

Similar deal with the OP, it's nothing to do with the group's sexual orientation. More to do with specifically how they manifest their beliefs on transpeople.

Wasn't there a lesbian group who recently moved their meetings into a private residence of one of the members and the males who wished to attend called the police to attempt to force entry?

"So why are they rocking up at events that organised by that movement for that movement?"

Yet apparently lesbians are totally free to meet to have their own 'movements'!

And male people demanding entry into lesbian spaces and lesbian dating pools doesn't happen does it? And lesbians are totally free to make their boundaries known without being accused of transphobia?

I will see if I can find the tweet from that meeting in the home of a lesbian.

What happened to "Queer"? This was the inclusive term to include trans people and gender-attracted.
So @suggestionsplease1 if you are trans or attracted to gender use this term.

Lesbian is taken.

Can I suggest to our 'this isn't a problem' posters to register on any lesbian dating app and state simply you are interested in women only (not that you should have to on a lesbian dating app). Then see how long it is until you are banned for being transphobic or non inclusive or whatever bullshit excuse they come up with.
Lesbians cannot exert their preferences and they are being forced to include males. If you deny this you are part of the problem.

People unfortunately erode each others boundaries all the time, irrespective of gender/sex or orientation. No demographic has a monopoly on this.

I'm old now and have spent a lot of time in the company of a lot of people. I can say with some authority that sexual harassment IS sexed. When I've been hit on by women, a polite "no ta" is all that's required. Once, a lovely lesbian gave me a lecture about why I shouldn't apologise for my sexuality as she certainly wouldn't for hers.

My tween (bi) has learned that saying she's a lesbian works to stop the sexual harassment she's already experiencing from boys at school. Her 'no' isn't enough.

And I do think the whole point is that it's not 'live and let live' as various posters would have it. It's 'live and die in a grease fire'. If women who are same-sex attracted could gather, organise, talk, date, shag without anyone threatening and intruding on them, there wouldn't be an issue. But when people 'have their own march' even the posters on here must know what happens. It happens in public.

I have friends who are lesbians going out with transwomen and they have the right to determine their sexual choices and their labels...but some people bizarrely over-invested in the sex lives of others and possibly just quite controlling in general, appear to wish to take that from them.

They aren’t Lesbians they’re Bisexual. Transgender people that claim to be women are factually male. They can label themselves whatever they want except the word Lesbian as it is already taken.

Do your friends have to take precautions to avoid pregnancy?
Real Lesbians don’t.

And yes, if you’re a woman and you routinely sleep with fellas, you’re not a lesbian

EVEN IF you have short, interesting hair
EVEN IF you just have always felt that you’re, like, a bit different, ok?
EVEN IF your husband has decided to gaslight you and the rest of the world with his lady gender

again, show some bloody respect

"Sometimes you need to exclude to include."

Sometimes you need to exclude Lesbians in order to include Straight Men. Have I got that right?

FFS.