Four found dead in property

Except they did.

People said it isn't women's responsibility to change abusive men.....that's different to what you are suggesting.

And as usual you're not able to explain why....

What's so outrageous about saying we should focus on the actual perpetrators rather than blaming it on all men? What posters on here are suggesting is basically like blaming all black people for gang related stabbings in Hackney.

I am so sorry for your loss. I tangentially knew a family who suffered similarly, and have nothing but contempt for those people who seek to justify and make excuses for violent, controlling, abusive men.

Thank you

Except they did.

@MovinGroovinBarbie is invoking the No True Scotsman fallacy, and quite frankly I’m sick of seeing it.

She’s decided no sane person kills someone, therefore all murderers are mentally ill (or out of control, or ‘snapped’ or committed ‘a crime of passion.)

Anyone with experience of this, personally or professionally, knows this is not true. This is about control, blame, entitlement or pride, not mental illness. The articles and studies posted upthread all make this clear.

These are also frequently planned killings. The recently sentenced one where the ex murdered his former wife had already dug the hole in the woods before he drove over to kill her.

@DollyTrolly , I am so sorry for your loss. I tangentially knew a family who suffered similarly, and have nothing but contempt for those people who seek to justify and make excuses for violent, controlling, abusive men.

bloody hell - just read the "catchwords" (tags i guess) on that report

Coroners: inquest, killing, retaliatory filicide, intimate partner homicide, lethality risk factors, domestic violence, coercive control, service systems, police response, police training, multi-disciplinary teams

RETALIATORY FILICIDE

R E T A L I A T O R Y F I L I C I D E

i think you have a problem reading a lot of posts here. Because what people write and what you understand appear to be two completely different things.

I haven't read all of the link from @Sagealicious yet but it looks like the man was very much like his father (who abused his own daughters) everything and everyone was his property to do with as he chose, anyone who didn't go along with this was punished.

I don’t think I’ve ever read something so unbelievably soul destroying. I cannot process it.

I don't actually understand your point here. Women are by and large both the victims of these men AND the ones doing the work to clear up their mess. It is predominantly women working in the practical and nurturing roles that are trying to break these cycles of intergenerational trauma.

It really is 😟😢

Just heart-breaking.......

I take it you also disagree with the posters who believe that there's nothing that women can do to help?

Who has said that?

Nobody, but nobody, said that.

Well, then you have my greatest respect. I take it you also disagree with the posters who believe that there's nothing that women can do to help?

For anyone who may need help in understanding how these situations can escalate and what it often leads to please have a read of this. Please be aware it is horrific.

https://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/723664/cif-hannah-clarke-aaliyah-baxter-laianah-baxter-trey-baxter-and-rowan-baxter.pdf

So many good posts here, on a depressing thread about a terrible crime.

I have what is classified as a serious mental illness (bipolar). However, I am generally quite well, hold down a responsible job, have a family etc.

Importantly, I have capacity to make decisions.

If I get up tomorrow and decide to stab my husband, the papers might say that I am a mentally ill woman, but actually that would have fuck all to do with anything. I would have made that choice completely separate from my mental health and if you assessed me you would know I had understood exactly what I was doing.

Mental health support is quite poor in the UK but mental health issues are rarely the cause of or an excuse for violent crime.

If we could protect women and children for just one generation, just one, we'd have fewer violent men. Don't give access, lock violent men up, make it easy to leave, support women's charities, give women and children safe spaces and we'd go a long way.

All of this, and thank you for your eloquent post and the work that you do.

Happy to discuss but won't be replying to any posters telling me I 'should be ashamed of myself'. For me this is about finding a solution rather than just revelling in another opportunity to moan about male entitlement, using the death of women and children as a vehicle to do this.

well, @MovinGroovinBarbie nobody is saying that All Men Are Like That are they, so you're jousting at windmills.
And as pp have said, women have been shouting from the rooftops for help in tackling male violence against women (and men, because let's not forget they are the mothers of murdered sons and the daughters of murdered fathers etc)

Yet help comes there none. And as i find out so often on 8th March and 19th November - they will often moan that "nobody is setting up help services for men like they do for women" completely ignoring the fact that most of the services and charities that help women were set up by women sick of waiting for funding. And that organisations like the Campaign Against Living Miserably (CALM - an organisation set up to promote and help good mental health for men) was set up by a woman. We are exhausted. Time for men to step the fuck up.

Quite.

Personality disorders are not mental health disorders. They're character disorders. Most abusive men are not at the mercy of themselves. They're not incapable of controlling themselves. It's a choice.

I think @MrsTerryPratchett point that if we could protect women and children for just one generation we would have much less of a problem as the kids are raised without trauma etc is sooo important.

The causes of such behaviour are well evidenced and documented for years now. But instead of working to address that money for services that do is cut and violent men get access to their kids etc etc etc.

Even if we reduce it down to just the financial side and take all emotion out of it. Financially long term it makes sense to fix it for the next generation because they are more likely to then contribute to society and not draw from it in mental health care and prison or social workers etc etc. but society just lets it get worse. Society if anything makes it worse actively ignoring the evidence with these shitty phrases like crime of passion/kids need to know their dad blah blah blah.

I just don't understand why. Why the fuck let it continue?? Do the men in power get their jollies abusing their women so much that they wouldn't want to deprive the next generation of boys this experience? No matter the cost to the tax payers and to women and children in perpetuity.

Just infuriating.

As does the woman saving/redeeming the man from his violent nature if she only just understood and loved him enough to make him change bullshit as well.

Women are not responsible for regulating violent men

because it creates an unresolvable problem by shifting the blame away from the perpetrators onto a massive group who are mostly innocent

Still no acknowledgement that a woman and two children are dead, I see.

Ya, this whole trope of being so passionately in love with someone that it drives you to violence being an understandable thing really needs to stop being perpetuated.