Girl Sues Hospital for Removing Her Breasts at Age 13

What role do the parents play in this. Why is her first action against the doctors and not her parents who failed to safeguard her from this ideology, whether it was online or anywhere else.
Why did they fail her?

So what do you propose?

Since we have no idea when an 11 or 13 or 15 year old going through adolescense - an age when most have some identity angst / crisis, and are easily influenced, and spend a ton of time online, and want acceptance, and think they know a lot more than they do, and all the other developmental aspects of that age - decide they want body parts cut off or hormones to permanently alter their growth and development - and we know that down the road some will regret it and feel mutilated and harmed and others will not - what do we do?

Do we cut off the breasts of all 11/13/15 year olds who feel confused through puberty and just cross our fingers that they are happy with it ten years later and say too bad so sad to the ones who are devastated by the mutilation of their bodies? Or do we instead say no, we are not cutting off functional body parts or permanantly altering your growth and development as you are a child and once they are adults they can make those decisions if they still feel the same way.

I was given the option of a major surgery on my foot at the age of 15. My primary (and developmentally normal) concern at the time was the kind of shoes I could wear. I really didn't understand the repercussions of the surgery from an orthopedic standpoint or what osteoarthritis would feel like down the road or what other potential challenges there would be. I was mostly interested in what shoes I could or couldn't wear and how long would I be in a cast and would it interfere with getting my driver's licence and would recovery interfere with some holiday plans I had. If I had the discussion about my surgery at 25 or 35, it would have been extremely different to what it was at 15 as my wordview, life experience, priorities, indpependence etc were all different.

Our minds and decision making capabilities are limited at 13 by not only brain development but by our narrow environment and life experience and by how impressionable and suggestible children are. So many detransitioners have talked about how they were just really confused and struggling at that age and as adults they realized that it was more about sexual orientation or about mental health / illness or about childhood trauma or about self hatred / not fitting in or about peer pressure / acceptance from the trans community or about vulnerability to ideologies when they were young or not understanding the ramifications for them. Is it fair to gamble with their lives and bodies?

You have to remember what parents are told. So often they are told that they have to "affirm" (i.e. agree with) everything their child is saying otherwise they're "transphobic".

They're also told that children who want to change sex/identify as the other sex are at a very high risk of suicide*. They can be asked "Do you want a dead child or a trans one?"

What parent, faced with a distressed child who you've just been told is at a high risk of killing themselves, isn't going to do whatever they're told to do by medical practitioners and support groups?

(*this doesn't seem to be borne out in any statistics I've seen)

Detrans numbers are hard to find but a university in California does a big survey called the US Transgender Survey. It was done in 2009, then again in 2015, and again in fall of 2022 (Data not out yet).

In the 2015 survey 8% said the had detransitioned at least once (many reported due to social pressures or it was just too hard). It will be interesting to see if that number goes up. I saw a study that was done in 2020 (published in 2021) and they reported a 13% detransition at least once number.

The 2022 survey apparently had tens of thousands of responses so it might be an interesting data set.

So instead, these men have basically laid the groundwork for trans kids, so that they can claim that their fetish is innate (and therefore more socially acceptable to everyone else). And of course, pharmaceutical companies are happy to profit from it

Which begs the question, what has to happen. We have drag kids talking to murderers , kids holding dog leashes of pvc clad men, we have toxic drugs being given to children, we have sports women injured by males ending their career, we have teenagers chopping off healthy body parts, the medical profession profiting left right and centre, ..and adult makes changing infront of little girls, what has to happen. How bad does it have to get until someone says " whoa hang on"

Theres more suspicion of extended warranties and vaccines than there is on this..

In my conspiracy theory moments I also blame the formula industry. Though I dare anyone to read 'the politics of breastfeeding' and deny that it's a possibility.

I'm not in the UK. A family member transitioned. They had many, many sessions with a pyschologist before any treatment at all could be started. It was not a matter of turning up and saying that they were a different gender. The parents were initially shocked (major understatement there) but came to accept that their child truly was transgender - yes I understand they tried reasoning, and frankly everything they could think of to convince the child that they were the original gender. They told me they were haunted by the idea of later regrets.

Their child did transition. The child is in a long standing relationship. They have friends. They are doing a post graduate degree. They are happpy. The family pulled together and adopted the new gender, even the grandparents got on board showing an amazingly broad minded side we had never seen before. So far as I know, the young person has not had a single regret a decade later. This is the other side of the story.

DD3 (14) was asking me when she could have 'all of this ripped out' (referring to her reproductive organs) because she's never going to want children so it's a waste anyway.

I said that many teenagers think they will never want children and most women change their mind at some point. Besides, she needs the hormones and it's really important for bone density, etc.

DD3 had no idea that her reproductive organs had any other function than creating babies. She had no idea that there could be medical implications from removing them. Our children need better education about what it is to be female, what our bodies do, how they function. Then they may respect the 'stupid baby making parts'.

an utterly dismal tale.

although i abhor the idea of it, i at least understand the the hypothetical arguments in favour of castrating boys who want to transition in relatively early puberty - doing so will to some extent stop them fully developing certain male characteristics in terms of facial bone structure, their voice breaking, and so on, stuff that's difficult to fix surgically 'further down the line'.

there's no such advantage, even hypothetical advantage, that i can think of for similarly early surgical intervention amongst girls who want to transition. cutting their breasts off won't impact any of their other secondary characteristics one iota.

The Fox Killer of the ‘Good’ Law Project recently declared that barristers should not take cases he perceived as ‘anti trans’. Undermining the fundamental principle of Justice and legal representation and opening up barristers who represent ‘difficult’ clients to condemnation by their profession. That is the atmosphere we are talking about here

I find it so disturbing the number of adults so keen to advocate for this. Who benefits from a cohort of young people above the age of consent who have the bodies of pre pubescent children?

Does anyone think this is actually an accident?

I'm not in the UK. A family member transitioned. They had many, many sessions with a pyschologist before any treatment at all could be started. It was not a matter of turning up and saying that they were a different gender. The parents were initially shocked (major understatement there) but came to accept that their child truly was transgender - yes I understand they tried reasoning, and frankly everything they could think of to convince the child that they were the original gender. They told me they were haunted by the idea of later regrets.

Their child did transition. The child is in a long standing relationship. They have friends. They are doing a post graduate degree. They are happpy. The family pulled together and adopted the new gender, even the grandparents got on board showing an amazingly broad minded side we had never seen before. So far as I know, the young person has not had a single regret a decade later. This is the other side of the story.

As I said on another thread, my adult son is apparently trans. The sessions with a psychologist appear to be him saying 'I'm trans' and the professional agreeing. There have been hardly any , some were over zoom , so I could actually hear what my son was saying ( No I wasn't trying to snoop). My son does nothing, absolutely nothing, that would make any sane person think he is actually a she. I won't say more, but I am distressed by all of this because I know it will cause regret.

What role do the parents play in this. Why is her first action against the doctors and not her parents who failed to safeguard her from this ideology, whether it was online or anywhere else.
Why did they fail her?