Girl Sues Hospital for Removing Her Breasts at Age 13

No one here is " anti trans" . We want trans people to have the best healthcare possible just like everyone else. We just don't believe that means causing disabilities in perfectly healthy bodies amd pretending we believe the impossible. Its not " pro trans " to allow this stuff to happen to adults or children.

You cannot change sex. Thats a given. Its not pro or anti anything. Feminists and the far right didnt decide this. Nature did.

Absolutely this! Mother Nature's a terf.

Great post.

How do you ever reach “happy” when your starting point is having been told repeatedly that to be visibly trans is to live in fear of violence and hatred, but that you’ll be in danger of killing yourself if you aren’t allowed to transition?

Activists have got kids coming and going.

Quite.

Or Jackie Green, a nearly 30 year old adult who comes across as a stroppy teen.

I might be more convinced about what constitutes a 'happy' physical transitional, 20 years down the line, when they are all leading fulfilled, independent lives enjoying normal relationships

I think people who advocate for allowing full on transition to children forget some majorly important things. For instance when so much of the whole trans identity is about being a victim , saying "yes" doesn't actually make them happy. There will be more and more stuff pushed for because the "No" is actually needed here. I think this is why we have gotten to such a crazy point because no one actually expected us to say yes we will stick this male rapist in a womans prison and of course you can beat the shit out of a woman in the boxing ring. You can't be a victim when people say yes so you have to keep going until you get that no. Children in particular need boundaries. They may appear happy and excited at first but actually when there are no boundaries they simply end up confused and unhappy long term.

And secondly as we have seen play out on tv, when your whole life is about your transition and that has literally been allowed to be the most interesting thing about you and everyone in your family is over invested and over involved in it all, you cant just stop. How do you stop when there's no where else to go when everything has been about going for the next step? You throw yourself into activism or the transition of others because you have to keep going because that's also your identity. You can't just stop. You have ti find somewhere else to go.

What made a card carrying terf out of me was thinking a couple years back, “hmm I remember being so angry at the whole concept of “trans children” around 2013 I dipped out of the debate… but maybe I was wrong? They’ll be adults now, right? Let’s look up Jazz Jennings :)”

And that's the other thing, isn't it?

If these children's emotional, mental and psychological development has been forever arrested along with their physical development, you've got a bunch of little kids walking around in the chronological body of adults.

Never mentally comprehending what has been denied to them. Never maturing enough to care.

I might be more convinced about what constitutes a 'happy' physical transitional, 20 years down the line, when they are all leading fulfilled, independent lives enjoying normal relationships.

At the moment, most of the ones I see, are either still living at home, or appear to be locked in a perpetual adolescence.

It's a shame Violasaremyfavourite hasn't come back to address people's questions.

I was interested to know what the psychologists concluded was the cause of the person's gender dysphoria.

Because the ideological position doesn't allow for the concept. And that post sounded ideological to me.

What did the 'many, many sessions' reveal about the reasons for transition?

I've a hunch we may never know.

This.

Whilst there are obviously parents who push this (Green, Jennings), other parents are being forced to comply.

The nightmare scenario of agreeing to transition your child or lose her/him forever is horrifying.

This post is the equivalent of reading about someone who has had a dozen consecutive miscarriages and posting about how their relative had healthy triplets after their first time having sex 🙄 Read the fucking room.

I'm just watching it.

None of the kids really seem that bothered. They arent fussed talking about it. None appear to have any significant dysphoria The drs and parents are all projecting shit into them attemptingto justify what's going on. And nothing the kids are doing is anything they couldn't do as the sex they are.

Exactly. A drastic and barbaric solution to something indefinable, it should never have been allowed and should be stopped.

I agree with never using ‘top surgery’ again. Name it what it is. An elective double mastectomy for cosmetic purposes.

A double mastectomy that includes all the side effects of a double mastectomy. The tightening of scars, the itchiness of scars, the restriction of movement, the loss of breast function in the future. The pain.

Let’s fucking stop with the minimising. This is a brutal surgery. And it is being glamourised.

Yes I agree, nobody is 'born in the wrong body' and the NHS definitely should not be funding such barbaric unnecessary surgeries at any age

N0 one can seem to agree what it even is. Its NOT born in the wrong body. Its NOT stereotypes. Gender dysphoria dx not required. Its NOT a mental illness. We know alot about what it ISNT but nothing about what it actually is. Why are we operating on people when what they are suffering can't even be defined at a basic level

Most 18 year olds also lack sufficient life experience to truly know the implications of such surgeries. Perhaps best not to offer them at all and definitely not waste public money on them.

Does anyone remember how genetically modified food was demonised successfully in the media by calling it 'Frankenstein food'?
The language around gender surgery needs to be more honest and less sugar-pill coated. It is not 'top surgery' it is the cutting off of both breasts etc

Yes I agree, nobody is 'born in the wrong body' and the NHS definitely should not be funding such barbaric unnecessary surgeries at any age.

I am guessing these are all Republican states. Never did I ever think I would support US Republicans over US Democrats as a UK person looking on
Interesting that some of this dodgy 'transing of kids' started under the Obama Administration and Trump pushed it back a bit, for Biden to re-embrace it all on Day 1 of his election.

I dont think they should be a thing at all

Just because we can doesn't mean we should.

There are far too many adults who either regret it or have nefarious reasons for it all.

Anyone who wants to destroy their healthy functioning body has problems no surgery can fix. Just no.

Another clear reason why trans operations should not be allowed until a person is 18. Hopefully that will become the law.

We agree.

After the surgery the trans person discovers that hetro men are not interested in them because they are biologically male with a fake vagina, gay men like penis so they are missing that, lesbians don’t consider them a woman. They can’t reproduce, and quickly learn it’s not all rainbows and unicorns.

This is the bit that never seems to be explained adequately to young people embarking on 'transition'. That they will greatly reduce their chance of finding a partner. It's being sold as a way to make them happier in life by changing their bodies, but making them into an infertile facsimile of the opposite sex and impairing their sexual function is unlikely to lead to a happy outcome in the long run.

Well of course they can’t actually create a vagina, but the fake one is “better” if they have more of the skin of the penis. Basically they create a type of hole. Which is like an open wound. This then constantly tries to heal, so closing, and the boy has to insert a type of dildo into it every day to keep it from closing up. This is what they did to Jazz Jennings. Because of the hormones Jazz had to have several corrective surgeries as the first one was a disaster.

After the surgery the trans person discovers that hetro men are not interested in them because they are biologically male with a fake vagina, gay men like penis so they are missing that, lesbians don’t consider them a woman. They can’t reproduce, and quickly learn it’s not all rainbows and unicorns.

This treatment should never be carried out on children they have not got the cognitive ability to make a fully informed decision

It's available here on iPlayer.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05qkzt2/louis-theroux-specials-transgender-kids

@Whatwouldscullydo , @OMG12

I clearly didn't express myself very well. What I meant was how many people who are 'happy' with their transition - whatever 'happy' means - are required to justify one kid who is thinking 'my life has been completely fucked up and cannot be unfucked'? Is it 10, 100 or 1,000? Or is it: No, the risk of just one fucked up kid is too great a risk to consider this treatment for children.

Define happy ? How will they know if they would had been happy without surgery or hormones and perhaps just a gay person ?

I still don’t get it because we live in a time where people can wear what they want and sleep with any consenting adult and basically be themselves without surgery and hormones.

The concept of what is feminine and masculine is so much more blurred without being sold a lie .