DSD12 nipping it in the bud

Well yeah, if you mean literal biological sex change.

But they believe that gender identity supercedes biology to the point that they are equivalent to the opposite sex.

So they think they are the opposite sex, even when they admit that it's impossible on the biological level.

I'd have agreed with you before my son started secondary school, but they see worse on the bus now. I think total honesty with clear language is the only way to nip things in the bud. There are only two biological sexes and you can't change it by wishing really hard. They need to see the outcomes.

This is crazy.
I'd be challenging this immediately.

Are they gender-critical views that's being voiced, or are they being personal about a trans kid?

I think the pictures are a bit too graphic for a twelve year old. However, an explanation of the effects of testosterone on the female body may be instructive, especially the risk of vaginal atrophy and how that can lead to incontinence issues and even the need for a hysterectomy. Inflicting a bunch of medical issues that are more normally experienced by women in their fifties, on yourself while you're still in your twenties is not a wise course of action.

I agree with those who are talking about the 'unfashionable' element of it.

DS12 and his friends seem to think the whole gender identity thing is bit silly.

I think the younger kids are starting to see through it tbh.

I've had the same experience but with my own daughter. I constantly discussed gender stereotypes with her since tiny, discussed the difference of gender and sex, which she understood, similarly to you I was very masculine as a child and teen, I think in part due to having an extremely misogynistic step father, so I was very sensitive to sexism. So the regression into gender stereotypes is very emotive for me and I found it very hard to deal with.

My daughter didn't have internet access until she was 14 and then restricted. But she still fell down the rabbit hole and followed all her friends when she was around 12. If she has alternative type friend (most likely neurodivergent) this is simply unavoidable. It is the alternative to alternative music. Being different is the key to their identity. Self harm self diagnosing of tics etc is closely aligned. If this happens too, I say try not to be alarmed and take it with a pinch of salt.

My daughter's best friend is 'he' on the school register and she refers to all her female friends as he or them. She has had phases of wanting to be he/him but mostly wanted to be non binary. She never asked me to change her pronouns (I expect she knew I would refuse) but did other people. But she is 16 now and I'm definitely seeing it start to tail off a bit. She has recently admitted it is really cringey that she was obsessed with announcing she was asexual/pansexual/any other sexual etc when she was younger and finds the obsessive flag waving a bit cringey too. She finds the name she wanted everyone to call her cringey. She has removed all her tags from her social media. She still definitely identifies with gender ideology, but I now see hope that this might be something she grows out of and sees the other point of view, and it isn't all consuming for her anymore. I think the best method is to smile and nod as much as possible, but to not agree to the change in pronouns if requested. Tell her that is fine for her to do with her friends but you won't do it until she is at least an adult.

People really are saying you can change sex. It was debated in parliament just this week.

Petition A: clarify the Equality Act to make clear that sex means (biological/birth/actual) sex. Petition B: leave it as it is, which at least currently according to the Haldane judgement (to be appealed?) says that sex may mean sex as modified by a gender recognition certificate, or possibly actual sex, depending on ... what exactly isn't clear, but it seems like a recipe for further expensive legal tussling. Great howlings and declarings that if sex is deemed to be not changed then trans people are being genocided and their existence denied.

ScotGov initially tried to assert that anyone who asserted a gender identity had changed sex for purposes of discrimination legislation, which was carried in the first FWS judicial review, then overturned at appeal. Then they reverted to only if you had a GRC. It's all in legal papers and Hansard. No more pretending it's not happening.
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2023-06-12/debates/F74BD8CC-4807-46F4-AA51-5402B7CFE8F9/LegislativeDefinitionOfSex

No they aren’t. They are saying you can change gender, not sex

it's a two day internal suspension to voice gender critical beliefs in my child school)

WTAF?? That's ridiculous.

Show her the end results on twitter. The after pictures of gender affirmation and daily after care needed. It is pretty sick that they are going for kids who aren't sexually active so won't understand the implications of lifelong infertility and physical disability. Show her the final state "genitalia" the success stories are left with. An ideology that pushes widescale sterilisation, medicalisation and shortened life span as an end goal for anyone who shows any non standard gender (under the ironic tag of affirmation). Should be a new black mirror episode

Oh my god, they suspend children at your school for saying people can't change sex??!

There are a few detransitioners on YouTube. Maybe watch some of their content together?

@Notamum12345577 Stonewall are pushing the idea that they can. There are people who claim trans 'women' have periods, that their blood gradually changes that they do develop different chromosomes.

It's all bollocks but it looks like it is official.https://www.stonewall.org.uk/the-truth-about-trans

https://genderanalysis.net/2015/12/chromosomes-cis-expectations-vs-trans-reality-gender-analysis-14/

https://www.snexplores.org/article/gender-when-body-and-brain-disagree

I disagree I still think lots of people do believe that with enough hormones and surgeries that they have changed sex - I believe Keira Bell did. They tend to ignore that sex is based on the reproductive role and that no person has ever gone from producing ova to sperm but that’s all part of the grift. Remember it used to be called ‘Sex Reassignment Surgery’.

I’m not aware of anyone (trans included) who thinks someone can change their sex.

it's a two day internal suspension to voice gender critical beliefs in my child school

That must be a breach of the equality act 2010

Get her away from the internet whenever you can. When she's with you try to fill up her time doing embodied activities - can you take her horse riding/cycling, get her volunteering an animal shelter, go rock climbing or swimming or for walks in the country?

She need to learn and appreciate how amazing her body is and all the wonderful things she can do with it.

It really depends on your relationship, but things like "it is so hard being non-binary, you couldn't possibly understand!", with a response, "I do understand though what it is like to feel like to feel different from other girls, and to want people to accept me as I am". Not a very good example, but it is generally about reframing what is said so that the child can see how their feelings can also be explained/dealt with, without the need for framing it through the lens of gender ideology.

(it's a two day internal suspension to voice gender critical beliefs in my child school)

PurpleBugz that is so wrong. Have you thought of writing to Safe Schools Alliance so they have that information as evidence of what’s going on?

My kids are younger but I've started the debate with "are girls better than boys?/are boys better than girls?" "Should girls be allowed to play football?/are boys allowed to paint their nails?" This type of question. I also make extreme comments in jest like "I don't think I can buy you that top it's not pink and sparkly like girls should wear... have I got that right?"

It's my personal belief that if they can understand misogyny, sexism and patriarchy (not necessarily know the words but can see the societal patterns) then they can "be kind" as required by school rules (it's a two day internal suspension to voice gender critical beliefs in my child school) be kind but not indoctrinated.

I also think sport is a good way to highlight the unfairness. And think avoiding the sexual violence and toilet debate completely is best with kids unless they raise the topic themselves. If they are TRA leaning the topic is a red flag to them and while we want them to understand what feminism and patriarchy are we don't want to scare them

If you personally had any feelings about not wanting to be a girl when you were younger I'd share that too. I've got photos of me dressed as a boy with short hair and doing 'boy' things my kids have seen. I've said I didn't want to be a girl because I wanted the freedoms boys had before I understood girls should have those freedoms too. Now I'm a mother I think being a woman is amazing but didn't know what it's like to be a mum back then

At 13 I might mention how gender affirming healthcare as kids/teens leads to the health outcomes it does. I'd also maybe mention it stops a person having orgasms.

No big serious conversations. Just little facts here and there and asking them questions so they work it out for themselves