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ArabeIIaScott · 15/06/2023 12:03

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 15/06/2023 12:00

Um.... yet again, I wasnt meaning your "lovely MIL"
I'm sure she is.
The original post said I wasnt referring to her, my clarification explains what I meant and you still don't seem to understand?
Not sure I can be arsed answering the rest of your bullet points and summary when you seem determined to misunderstand what people are saying and are still making it about your MIL when I was talking about people in the caring profession as a whole not being automatically completely prejudiced, and perfect angels which you bizarrely seem to think.

What's your point, Bodger?

ArabeIIaScott · 15/06/2023 12:03

Don’t those women count?

We know by now, surely, that women are only afforded full human status if they perform correctly and do as they're told.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 15/06/2023 12:01

Posted too soon - neither far right nor a fruitcake. Although I don't know what would make you describe anyone as a fruitcake because you didn't define that term, either. I assume it was to imply MH issues.

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 15/06/2023 12:00

Um.... yet again, I wasnt meaning your "lovely MIL"
I'm sure she is.
The original post said I wasnt referring to her, my clarification explains what I meant and you still don't seem to understand?
Not sure I can be arsed answering the rest of your bullet points and summary when you seem determined to misunderstand what people are saying and are still making it about your MIL when I was talking about people in the caring profession as a whole not being automatically completely prejudiced, and perfect angels which you bizarrely seem to think.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 15/06/2023 11:52

Interesting. Post deleted for saying “far right fruitcakes”. I’ve seen so much worse on here. Touched a nerve, presumably

That was me and no nerve touched, I can assure you as I'm neither 'far right' -well at least not in my terms. Obviously I don't know what your's are as you didn't clarify them but descended to what I thought was personal abuse. Clearly MN agreed with me as they deleted it.

And 'I've seen much worse on here' isn't exactly something to be proud of.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 15/06/2023 11:49

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 15/06/2023 11:33

Umm..... that's not what I said at all.

Ok

I’ve skimmed back through your contributions to the thread to try to understand what you are saying (I’d hate to do you an injustice)

despite saying ‘hear hear’ to the rather trite ‘lie down with dogs, get up with fleas’, which I read as ‘don’t read the Mail’, I think your problem is not with people reading the Mail, but rather with the Mail being celebrated

I think your other issue is with the idea that the mail might be regarded as a paper for women

I would make 2 points in response

  1. does the fact that in the early days they were literally the only mainstream outlet who would touch the incursions on womens rights that we’re seeing from transactivism not warrant some acknowledgment? Journalists like Sanchez Manning in particular will have taken the chance that this might damage their careers and done it anyway

  2. more women than men buy the Mail. In that respect it is a paper for women. Don’t those women count?

and a third point: have you considered conveying your position more clearly? You could have avoided being mean about my lovely MIL who hardly deserved it

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 15/06/2023 11:46

DarrellRiversCriminalBehaviourOrder · 15/06/2023 11:33

Right, well that's cleared that up.

I didn't see the deleted post and I feel none the wiser now.

ok 👍

ArabeIIaScott · 15/06/2023 11:41

MrsSkylerWhite · 15/06/2023 11:18

Interesting. Post deleted for saying “far right fruitcakes”. I’ve seen so much worse on here. Touched a nerve, presumably.

You're saying people are sensitive when you call them 'fruitcakes' because they have mental health issues?

Or you're trying to say we are 'far right'? And think that has 'touched a nerve'? How so? What does 'far right' actually mean, to you?

DarrellRiversCriminalBehaviourOrder · 15/06/2023 11:33

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 15/06/2023 11:28

Ok, I see I've been deleted
For those who didnt see, a poster (who has admitted they're the one who used it first, I was just responding to it) was calling another poster that word, saying they thought that they looked like one.
Without using their terminology like in the gone whoosh post, I was saying that its daft to think that just because someone is a carer, a nurse, that they can never be prejudiced and are automatically an angel as a result.
Which the poster seemed to think.
I even said I wasn't referring to her MIL, as I wasnt at all, I was meaning in the case of people in caring professions as a whole, as it seemed a strange view to have.

Right, well that's cleared that up.

I didn't see the deleted post and I feel none the wiser now.

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 15/06/2023 11:33

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 15/06/2023 11:31

Yes , I think your argument was ‘it’s ok for me to assume someone is bigoted and prejudiced if they read the daily mail’, no?

I understand that you read the daily mail. I shall assume hear with that my working assumption that you are bigoted and prejudiced is correct

Umm..... that's not what I said at all.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 15/06/2023 11:31

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 15/06/2023 11:28

Ok, I see I've been deleted
For those who didnt see, a poster (who has admitted they're the one who used it first, I was just responding to it) was calling another poster that word, saying they thought that they looked like one.
Without using their terminology like in the gone whoosh post, I was saying that its daft to think that just because someone is a carer, a nurse, that they can never be prejudiced and are automatically an angel as a result.
Which the poster seemed to think.
I even said I wasn't referring to her MIL, as I wasnt at all, I was meaning in the case of people in caring professions as a whole, as it seemed a strange view to have.

Yes , I think your argument was ‘it’s ok for me to assume someone is bigoted and prejudiced if they read the daily mail’, no?

I understand that you read the daily mail. I shall assume hear with that my working assumption that you are bigoted and prejudiced is correct

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 15/06/2023 11:29

IcakethereforeIam · 15/06/2023 11:18

@BodgerLovesMashedPotato yes, there were a couple of posts, but, iirc, they were saying they were told the paper was aimed at women. It's a bit hairsplitty but there is a difference.

Yes, I think the phraseology was that the Mail wanted to be the paper of women

and as pet @OldGardinia ’s post, it is read by slightly more women than men

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 15/06/2023 11:28

Ok, I see I've been deleted
For those who didnt see, a poster (who has admitted they're the one who used it first, I was just responding to it) was calling another poster that word, saying they thought that they looked like one.
Without using their terminology like in the gone whoosh post, I was saying that its daft to think that just because someone is a carer, a nurse, that they can never be prejudiced and are automatically an angel as a result.
Which the poster seemed to think.
I even said I wasn't referring to her MIL, as I wasnt at all, I was meaning in the case of people in caring professions as a whole, as it seemed a strange view to have.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 15/06/2023 11:27

MrsSkylerWhite · 15/06/2023 11:18

Interesting. Post deleted for saying “far right fruitcakes”. I’ve seen so much worse on here. Touched a nerve, presumably.

Lovey, you can fruitcake me all you like, I enjoy it

SerafinasGoose · 15/06/2023 11:22

OldGardinia · 15/06/2023 11:15

I would also like to thank @SerafinasGoose for the term "reformed women" to describe female writers in the Daily Mail.

You're welcome.

Not all misogynists are necessarily male.

IcakethereforeIam · 15/06/2023 11:18

@BodgerLovesMashedPotato yes, there were a couple of posts, but, iirc, they were saying they were told the paper was aimed at women. It's a bit hairsplitty but there is a difference.

MrsSkylerWhite · 15/06/2023 11:18

Interesting. Post deleted for saying “far right fruitcakes”. I’ve seen so much worse on here. Touched a nerve, presumably.

OldGardinia · 15/06/2023 11:15

I would also like to thank @SerafinasGoose for the term "reformed women" to describe female writers in the Daily Mail.

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 15/06/2023 11:13

PriOn1 · 15/06/2023 06:32

Women say they appreciate the DM for its coverage of the clash of women’s rights with the demands made by the trans lobby and are then lambasted over 16 pages and reminded over and over that the paper is not “for women” despite the fact that being “for women” was not a claim made.

I’m rolling my eyes as if I was Joanna Cherry listening to another abusive threat of suicide made by yet another a flying monkey.

despite the fact that being “for women” was not a claim made
There was one at least at the beginning of the thread

OldGardinia · 15/06/2023 11:03

SerafinasGoose · 15/06/2023 09:14

They're a hideous, misogynistic little rag which absolutely loathes women and objectifies them at every opportunity. Most of their articles about women suggest their bodies are something to be ogled whilst actively lambasting feminists and feminism - because, you know, the poor men have been 'emasculated'. Working mums, IVF mums, SAHMs, having the temerity to ask for equal work for equal pay, ad nauseam. And they frequently also include articles penned by reformed women, who were once feminists and had the sheer nerve to hold down a job or have children at a time of their own choosing, but are now contrite and have learned the error of their ways. It would be hilarious if it wasn't clear their target readership lap up this material and swallow it hook, line and bait.

Women should be women alright, but only if they adhere to regressive gender stereotypes or exist as titillation for men.

Oddly enough, the MRA/TRA body take exactly the same stance. According to them, and in utter disrespect of our own views on the subject, unless we are trans we are all 'cis gender', indicating we're comfortable with the backdated stereotypes arbitrarily conferred on the basis of our sex. How else would any natal male 'feel like a woman' unless actual women adhere to this BS? Butch women or successful professionals don't fit the mold.

At present this is a fight to the life for women against our wholesale erasure, in language, public space and freedom if not our physical bodies. If the Mail are the only ones willing to shine a light on this issue then fair play - they reach a wide readership and can for once influence the public in a way that actually benefits women who are not up for ceding over our rights to men. It's not exactly as though the Guardian are doing us any favours in that respect.

I'm under no illusions that the Mail are currently waving the flag for women's rights because they hate trans people more than they hate us. At this (urgent) turning point for women's rights, I couldn't honestly say I could care less.

FYA, the readership of the Daily Mail is slightly predisposed more towards being female than male. There have in the past been jokes about how it should be called the Daily FeMail.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/380710/daily-mail-the-mail-on-sunday-monthly-reach-by-demographic-uk/

Just because your post talks a lot about how it's anti-woman, hates women, etc.

Daily Mail and The Mail on Sunday: UK reach by demographic 2020 | Statista

The Daily Mail had an average monthly reach of over 36.2 million individuals from April 2019 to March 2020.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/380710/daily-mail-the-mail-on-sunday-monthly-reach-by-demographic-uk

Plunkplink · 15/06/2023 10:07

It gone in a weird circle, gay men design for a young man’s body shape, women try and fit that shape, men do it better, because they are men. Ergo men are women.

IcakethereforeIam · 15/06/2023 10:05

I read someone a while back saying something along the lines of 'fashion designers can get on with designing for teenaged boys, which is what they've been doing all along anyway'. I'm misremembering but that was the gist.

Plunkplink · 15/06/2023 09:59

I’ve often thought that fashion magazines favour the body structure of people like Dylan , because it has a lot of gay men working in the industry and that is the body type that attracts them.

When you think about it , the female supermodels don’t have the same body fat distribution that the average woman has.
this is why that body shape is unachievable for most women, but relatively easy for a young man to get that body.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 15/06/2023 09:53

I’ve always said men can have all that stuff. The beauty contests, the ‘flaunting their curves’ and leggy displays. The uncomfortable underwear and impractical shoes

men can have the whole damn lot. It seems to be what a lot of the role players want anyway

let’s all just be clear that wearing a short skirt doesn’t make you a woman, and then knock yourselves out