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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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Youknowaboutthepaint · 16/06/2023 20:37

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 16/06/2023 20:30

Too much treatment can be as dangerous as too little. It has been estimated that the US healthcare system kills as many people through over-treatment as under-treatment, thinking of the population in general. In this particular case, it sounds as if she may have made choices that resulted in under-treatment-so very sad.

Yes, I have a friend who's had the same issue to mine. A musculoskeletal thing, painful but not life threatening

The NHS basically told me there was nothing to be done, time, rest, a few stretches.

She has had multiple operations, £1000s spent on physical therapies and steroid injections courtesy of her private medical insurance.

Three years on I am fully recovered and she can hardly walk 😥

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 16/06/2023 20:30

Youknowaboutthepaint · 16/06/2023 20:05

It's all terrible, but my experience of private medicine is they'll give you more treatment than you need, not less, if you're paying for it. I wondered why an affluent or well insured woman in a private system wouldn't get "just in case" treatment.

Too much treatment can be as dangerous as too little. It has been estimated that the US healthcare system kills as many people through over-treatment as under-treatment, thinking of the population in general. In this particular case, it sounds as if she may have made choices that resulted in under-treatment-so very sad.

HamBone · 16/06/2023 20:22

I read this sad news yesterday. Sadly, it sounds as if she may may have had an eating disorder, bipolar and hadn’t been attending medical appointments. She didn’t want to have the baby in a hospital either . Her agent said that she was concerned about her but “As an adult you make your own decisions.”

It’s a tragedy, but it doesn’t sound as if race was the major factor in THIS particular case as it is in many others. I wonder where the baby’s father and her family were?

Newnamenewname109870 · 16/06/2023 20:08

This is so depressing and I know sometime similar happening to an old colleague’s friend. She was also a black woman. The statistics don’t lie. 😭

knitnerd90 · 16/06/2023 20:06

In this case it appears that she avoided antenatal care and thought she was at bigger risk from doctors. Combine that with MH issues and it's dangerous. It's rightly difficult to force a woman to get medical care.

It doesn't seem to be that doctors failed to diagnose her, it's that her fear of the medical system (a combination of fear of racism and mental illness) led her to avoid medical care and so she went undiagnosed.

Youknowaboutthepaint · 16/06/2023 20:05

IwantToRetire · 16/06/2023 19:59

Why would black women still struggle to get the care they need?

Because despite research and high profile stories, eg Serena Williams, medical practitioners refuse to recognise that Black women may be prone to certain conditions when pregnant. And from research carried out the medical practitioners fail to listen when Black women try to alert those who should be caring for them that something is wrong.

It's all terrible, but my experience of private medicine is they'll give you more treatment than you need, not less, if you're paying for it. I wondered why an affluent or well insured woman in a private system wouldn't get "just in case" treatment.

IwantToRetire · 16/06/2023 19:59

Why would black women still struggle to get the care they need?

Because despite research and high profile stories, eg Serena Williams, medical practitioners refuse to recognise that Black women may be prone to certain conditions when pregnant. And from research carried out the medical practitioners fail to listen when Black women try to alert those who should be caring for them that something is wrong.

Youknowaboutthepaint · 16/06/2023 19:42

I've heard about black women receiving inferior care in the NHS, but this happened in US and presumably she would have had the insurance/means to pay for whatever care she needed? Why would black women still struggle to get the care they need?

Theyreallydidaskthat · 16/06/2023 19:38

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

IwantToRetire · 16/06/2023 16:08

As she hadn’t been to antenatal appointments

I know the health care system in the US is different, but wouldn't that have been a cause for concern. ie shouldn't a welfare check have been made to find out why she hadn't attended.

Whatever happened, this is still a tragedy. And also must have had an impact on family and friends who are probably all thinking "if only I had done ..." or had assumed that someone else was in touch with her.

Neverinamonthofsundays · 16/06/2023 13:24

I am white and a lazy git who has never ran in her entire life and had pre eclampsia. They caught it early enough and had me in 'blood pressure clinic' for a week before deciding to keep me in and induce me.

Gracewithoutend · 16/06/2023 11:31

BBC Sport reporting that of the 4 women who won Gold in the 4x100m relay at the 2016 Olympics (of which Tori Bowie was one), 3 experienced serious problems in pregnancy/labour, resulting in the death of Tori.

There was more to it than just her being black, though. If she had mental health problems, who knows how much, if at all, race came into it.
Which of course is not to say that Allyson Felix isn't 100% right to call for changes.

loislovesstewie · 16/06/2023 11:23

I thought that she probably failed to take her meds for bi polar, lost touch with reality and just told no medical professionals about the pregnancy. Whether she was scared the baby would be taken into care, I don't know, but I do wonder why family and friends didn't raise any concerns well before the tragedy.

35965a · 16/06/2023 11:04

loislovesstewie · 16/06/2023 09:41

According to an article in the Daily Fail today, she had bi polar disorder, hadn't been attending ante natal appointments, wasn't eating and weighed 96 pounds when she died. It seems that friends /relatives urged her to get help but she refused. So sad, but I think there might be a huge amount more to this story.

I read that, it’s so sad. I read elsewhere she was 5’9 so at 96lbs she would have been severely underweight, skeletal with a bump. Her manager/friend spoke about telling her to eat. As she hadn’t been to antenatal appointments there may have been no doctors involved with her pregnancy at all.

CaveMum · 16/06/2023 10:59

BBC Sport reporting that of the 4 women who won Gold in the 4x100m relay at the 2016 Olympics (of which Tori Bowie was one), 3 experienced serious problems in pregnancy/labour, resulting in the death of Tori.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/65925398

Felix wants better maternity care for black women

Olympic great Allyson Felix calls for better maternity care for black women to ensure the death of team-mate Tori Bowie is "not in vain".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/65925398

loislovesstewie · 16/06/2023 09:41

According to an article in the Daily Fail today, she had bi polar disorder, hadn't been attending ante natal appointments, wasn't eating and weighed 96 pounds when she died. It seems that friends /relatives urged her to get help but she refused. So sad, but I think there might be a huge amount more to this story.

kublacant · 14/06/2023 19:04

This is so awful and it’s the same in the UK too. Take a look at the fivexmore campaign

https://www.fivexmore.com/

they say that black women in the UK are 4 times more likely to die in childbirth

FIVEXMORE

https://www.fivexmore.com/

MrsWombat · 14/06/2023 19:00

This is so sad. I hope something changes because of this, so her death wasn't in vain.

The only woman I've ever known to die in childbirth in the UK was also black.

knitnerd90 · 14/06/2023 18:03

gogohmm · 14/06/2023 16:16

Unfortunately poverty in the USA is the main reason for poor outcomes, because whilst you can access free maternity care in theory if you are poor. there's so many hurdles plus stigma many do not until later in pregnancy. The race issue I'm not sure whether it's partly to do with poverty, partly due to mistrust of medical professionals, higher risk occupations, poor housing etc a combination I suspect but it's scandalous whatever

Statistically, in the USA race is a bigger factor than poverty. They've looked into that.

Unfortunately at this point there's too many unanswered questions to give firm conclusions about Bowie's death. Did her doctors miss the signs of preeclampsia/eclampsia? Was the onset very sudden? We don't know. It seems she went into labour, and no friends or family were there. It's really tragic.

CaveMum · 14/06/2023 16:53

This is a shocking graph, showing that maternal mortality rates are getting WORSE in the US for all women. How much of the rise across 2020/2021 can be put down to Covid (in terms of lack of access to maternity care) I don’t know but I suspect it will be a factor.

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/maternal-mortality/2021/maternal-mortality-rates-2021.htm

Tori Bowie died from complications in childbirth
gogohmm · 14/06/2023 16:16

Unfortunately poverty in the USA is the main reason for poor outcomes, because whilst you can access free maternity care in theory if you are poor. there's so many hurdles plus stigma many do not until later in pregnancy. The race issue I'm not sure whether it's partly to do with poverty, partly due to mistrust of medical professionals, higher risk occupations, poor housing etc a combination I suspect but it's scandalous whatever

Reallybadidea · 14/06/2023 16:06

CaveMum · 13/06/2023 11:06

An awful story, and this paragraph is really making me rage

"It added possible complications Bowie had included respiratory distress and eclampsia - when a person develops seizures, or convulsions, during pregnancy."

A person. What type of person might that be then?

Interestingly, it says "woman" now.

IwantToRetire · 14/06/2023 16:02

There are probably others, but here are some groups working to improve health care for Black women during pregnancy and childbirth.

https://www.blackmumsupfront.com/

https://www.fivexmore.com/

https://themotherhoodgroup.org/

FIVEXMORE

https://www.fivexmore.com

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 14/06/2023 08:47

I found getting adequate maternity care difficult enough as an educated middle class white woman. Well, any medical care tbh.

And the only friend I lost to childbirth was a black woman - such a scandal of inadequate care and dismissal of mother’s concerns.

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